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  #1  
Old 04-18-2007
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Default CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

I didnt know these videos were available on Google video. Had i known, i'd have posted these a long time ago.


CIA and drug running (1997)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...98324250484369

This is a presentation that details some of the extensive links between the CIA and the illicit drug trade.

My advice to those who will watch would be to take the time

a) to go read the books mentionned in the beginning.

personnaly, i got my hand on The politics of heroin from Alfred McCoy, which traces the history of CIA-drug trade links from WWII until the Iran-Contra era. very well documented and sourced, a great read so far.

i also could get a quick look at powderburns : Cocaine, Contras And The Drug War from former DEA agent Celerino Castillo. this one is more a personnal testimony. since it centers on Castillo's personnal experience, its all about the Iran-Contra era.

b) write down all the names mentionned. it's worth the effort.


The truth and lies of 9/11(2001)

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?doc...d+lies+of+9+11

This one is more specifically about 9/11, as the title indicates.

However, a large part of the presentation deals with CIA- Wall Street-drug trade links.

it adds the economical/financial dimension of the issue that was lacking from the 1997 presentation, mostly thanks to new information which the speaker had been able to gather.

The thing i really like is that it does not deal with speculations: it does not deal with wether or not there were bombs in the WTC buildings or wether a missile hit the Pentagon. It deals with evidence, and thats important.

I know the fact that it argues that the US govt was complicit in the 9/11 attacks will rebuff many people.

I ask you guys to be open-minded, and even if the arguments don't convince you, and they probably won't since by now the opinions on this issue are pretty much settled, at leat acknowledge the factual evidences of CIA-drug trade relations that have been presented so far.



Denial stops here (2004-2005)

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...ial+stops+here

I chose to put this one too because it also brings to the table issues like Peak Oil and some comments on alternative energies. it also brings new arguments to the US govt complicity in 9/11 theory.

Personnaly, there are some things i dont like about this presentation, like the speaker's (Micheal C.Ruppert) pretention to "save us", us being those who listen to his speeches, or some analysis on some issues that i found slightly simplistic, or the way it has been presented.

but overall, it's still a very interesting presentation.

So in the end, the only thing i'd like to say to those who watch those presentations is: keep an open mind, dont take anything at face value, and don't overlook the factual evidences.
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Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Drugs no matter who sells them kills. Who ever sells them should be taken out, taken down, put away, what ever.
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Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

so the CIA should be taken out etc etc???
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Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

If we have to clean house then clean it. You seem to be surprised at that prospect. I have no reservation about doing the right thing. Now is the entire CIA at fault? Are there groups inside of groups that may be working on their own? Yes. Does that relieve the CIA from cleaning its own house? No.

If you are implying that we should dismantle the CIA as a result then I would say you do not have the defense of America in mind. Far from all the fucked up things government does there are many many good things gone unseen and unknown. For every bad thing that comes out about the CIA I can bet with full confidence that there are hundreds maybe thousands of good things done and accomplished. Do you think for one second that CIA personnel simply join for self? There is a great amount of patriotism in every agency of the federal government.

You see the fallacy of the anti-American haters is that all CIA personnel and any US government personnel are all imperialist power hungry monsters.
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Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

i was just asking...i dont hate the CIA...i think some of my friends hope to work there and i support them for it.
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Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizdlt View Post
i was just asking...i dont hate the CIA...i think some of my friends hope to work there and i support them for it.
Oh, NEVERMIND!

I think my point still hits home for lots of people out there anyway.
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Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

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Originally Posted by lizdlt View Post
i was just asking...i dont hate the CIA...i think some of my friends hope to work there and i support them for it.
I hope not! We don't need any commies in there!
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Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

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I hope not! We don't need any commies in there!
STOP!
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Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Quote:
Now is the entire CIA at fault?
Sureley not all employees are at fault. But look into it and you'll see that the top-ranking officials are. And if the top of the decision making is corrupt and dirty, then there is indeed a lot of "cleaning" to do.


Quote:
There is a great amount of patriotism in every agency of the federal government.
I don't doubt that, but when the patriotism of those at the bottom is manipulated by the few decision makers at the top, then it gets pretty hard to "clean". A lot harder than if it was, say, a few corrupt low ranking agents who would act independently.

Moreover, it's not just the CIA of course, there are extensive networks of relations between high ranking, and many times the highest ranking officials of several govt agencies.

And this doesnt take into account the financial/economical aspect of the issue: banks dont want to stop the drug trade, they profit too much from it, and the economy is too dependent on those profits. M.Ruppert talks of a 500 billion$ flow of drug money into US economy every year (based on the figures contained in senator Carl Levin's 2001 report on correspondent banking and money laundering).

I actually looked it up myself, and it is estimated that the illicit drug trade represents roughly 1.5 trillion $ a year worldwide, half of which ends up in the US economy. So the figure would actually be closer to 700-750 billion $ a year in drug money.

Dont get me wrong im not saying nothing should be done about it because it's good for the economy. The consequences are terrible on a societal level. But it's not an easy issue to solve.


edit: Ceya, clean up ur inbox goddamit! i've been trying to pm u but its constantly full. lol
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Last edited by miguelito21; 04-19-2007 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelito21 View Post
Sureley not all employees are at fault. But look into it and you'll see that the top-ranking officials are. And if the top of the decision making is corrupt and dirty, then there is indeed a lot of "cleaning" to do.




I don't doubt that, but when the patriotism of those at the bottom is manipulated by the few decision makers at the top, then it gets pretty hard to "clean". A lot harder than if it was, say, a few corrupt low ranking agents who would act independently.

Moreover, it's not just the CIA of course, there are extensive networks of relations between high ranking, and many times the highest ranking officials of several govt agencies.

And this doesnt take into account the financial/economical aspect of the issue: banks dont want to stop the drug trade, they profit too much from it, and the economy is too dependent on those profits. M.Ruppert talks of a 500 billion$ flow of drug money into US economy every year (based on the figures contained in senator Carl Levin's 2001 report on correspondent banking and money laundering).

I actually looked it up myself, and it is estimated that the illicit drug trade represents roughly 1.5 trillion $ a year worldwide, half of which ends up in the US economy. So the figure would actually be closer to 700-750 billion $ a year in drug money.

Dont get me wrong im not saying nothing should be done about it because it's good for the economy. The consequences are terrible on a societal level. But it's not an easy issue to solve.

I agree with your basic point but at the same time I have seen when a perceived intention by a middle echelon individual of what higher wants takes on a life of it's own. Things can get so out of control that the higher is blind sided by the reality of the situation once the middle operative’s shit starts to domino out of control. Then the higher looks like he is some real devious dude. Now does that relieve him (the higher) of his responsibility to keep things in check? Not by any means. So very good point and I think we are in more agreement then not. I would also like to point out that in that I am totally for giving my people (US) the benefit of the doubt before anyone else the CIA and the State dept. today are not in good standings with the white house. Although the White house sets Foreign policy these two other entities have many cliques, inner circle alliances etc. and are often known to eat their own and feed their own to the lions so long as it keeps them at bay. Remember the CIA is in the business of making things appear to be what ever they want it to be. Whole lives can be created and wiped out in a single communication. This war on drugs should be fought as such. Also, I understand your point with definitions but man when people are dying day in and day out. Being kidnapped and cut into peaces it is terrorizing society. I think on that you and I will just agree to disagree. I think just this large amount of money is lots of good reason for nothing to get done. Pisses me off. It does not surprise me that the same money that flows to the Columbian gov. some how makes it into the pockets of the Drug lords. Anyway I hope you are doing well these days and I look forward to your reply. I become a civilian on June 20th! WOW! I think that is a good reason to have a drink and a nice Cigar!
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Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Quote:
I have seen when a perceived intention by a middle echelon individual of what higher wants takes on a life of it's own. Things can get so out of control that the higher is blind sided by the reality of the situation once the middle operative’s shit starts to domino out of control.
I know what you mean, and i'm sure that it must happen sometimes. I mean, drugs make more than enough money to turn a decent guy's mind around and corrupt him. So i really would be surprised if such things didnt happen.

But the main point of these presentations, and what really struck me when i started reading the books i mentionned, is that it becomes evident, because documented, that the mecanisms involved in making drugs and drug profits enter US economy are really controlled by a few guys at the top of the command chain. So as much as i dont exuse those middlemen who decide to make money on their own, it is really impossible to blame them only for the monumental proportions this phenonmenon has attained.


Quote:
Whole lives can be created and wiped out in a single communication
yes and that is scary. remember most of the info presented is what is documented. I cant even imagine the things that remain unknown.

Quote:
I understand your point with definitions but man when people are dying day in and day out. Being kidnapped and cut into peaces it is terrorizing society. I think on that you and I will just agree to disagree.
Oh no we do agree: they do terrorize some ppl. But given the highly political use of the label terrorist, i prefer to restrict it's use to the very particular definitions i mentionned.


Quote:
It does not surprise me that the same money that flows to the Columbian gov. some how makes it into the pockets of the Drug lords
Yeah, given the deep links between the colombian political class and the paramilitary militias, its nothing surprising. Lately some pretty big scandals have come to light, but much remains hiddden. But the colombian situation is sooo freaking complicated that it would take 2 or 3 threads to talk about it. lol.


Anyway im doing good these days. Clean ur damn inbox and i'll be able to send u a pm ( i thaught soldiers were supposed to be tidy )
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  #12  
Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelotero View Post
I hope not! We don't need any commies in there!
i am not a commie and neither are my friends!

i dont know why you would perceive me as one....i dont advocate communism...i dont think anyway sorry this is way off topic.

CIA has done some pretty messed up things they do need to be checked.
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Dude I have! I don't know what the deal is! Unless I have it blocked some how! I will have to go back and look at it again. I gotcha on the terrorist thing and I hear you on the drug profits. good stuff man.
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Old 04-23-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

So ... what are the comments on the videos so far?


Ceya: i just tried again, it keeps saying you exeeded your storage capacity
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  #15  
Old 04-23-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Doesn't the CIA answer to the President?
Do conservatives believe that the ends justify the means?

If the answer is yes to both questions, than it is quite plausable that a President would know about the CIA running drugs, and still find it acceptable as long as those damn commie pinkos are defeated.
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Old 04-23-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

I gotta admit, i dont know much about the extend of the CIA's autonomy vis-à-vis the president, so ... i can't answer tht question, sorry.

Did u get a look at the videos tho?
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Old 04-24-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Below the link is an interesting fact I'd like to share regarding Union organizing effort in Columbia

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070425/...97bss_q069IxIF

Colombian senator: They want to kill me

By FRANK BAJAK, Associated Press Writer 11 minutes ago

Colombia is the world's most dangerous country for union organizing — more than 800 trade unionists have been murdered in the country over the last six years, and almost all remain unsolved.
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Although i see the connection between the situation in Colombia and that in the US regarding drugs, i don't find many elements in that article that help grasp the links between the CIA and the drug trade.
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Old 04-25-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

^ my speculation is that some of this war on drugs money is being used to arm, train, and fund Columbian soldiers. They then use their arms, training and funding to train, arm, fund and hire right-wing militias as mercenaries and assassins to murder leftist politicians, progressive professors, union organizers, indigenous people, student activists and anyone who wants to practice democracy in Columbia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv5XLpFHUeM
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Last edited by Ralo El Dorado; 05-02-2009 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 04-25-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Oh ok, i see. Yes indeed, much of the War on Drug, via Plan Colombia, furnishes abundant military aid (training, money, weapons) to the colombian military, which has well-known ties to right wing militias as you said.
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Old 04-26-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Going back to the videos, as i said i didnt really like the last one, or at least the way it presented the information. Many times, it compiles short footages from different speeches in which Ruppert repeats more or less the same thing, instead on showing one larger footage in which we see him actually making a case.

In response to that shortcomming, i wanted to provide a link to Building a better map, which are lectures by the same person.

Unfortunately, i couldnt find one, so all i can do is encourage ppl who are interested to download them (i got them on Edonkey). I know its illegal but its the only way to get them now, especially since the website FTW stopped functionning (the articles are still available tho, at http://www.fromthewilderness.com).

I also recommend reading his book, Crossing the Rubicon (i got it on Edonkey as well), for all the references it contains. I had started reading it but my computer went bust, so i have to wait until its repared.

I know its a lot to read, especially if u choose to read The politics of heroin by Alfred McCoy, but it's worth it.
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  #22  
Old 05-05-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Has anyone watched one or more of the videos yet?
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Old 07-25-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

Bumping it, just to bring it up again and see if theres any reactions.
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  #24  
Old 11-21-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

I saw the video that i had heard about but never seen. Its good to have information like this available.
thanks
peace
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Old 12-08-2007
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Default Re: CIA, drug trafficking and other issues

It's cool to see that some have been watching the vids, it's indeed good information.

It's too bad not more ppl watched and reacted tho. I'm almost sure Ceya, although he shared his views on the subject, didn't actually watch them for example. I'm thinking the lengh of the vids have a lot to do with that, it's not your 5-minute video footage, it's entire 1h30min+ presentations so ... yeah it's kinda long.

Glad you took the time to watch them Ryden. Hopefully more ppl will do the same.

Sorry to bring this up once again.
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