circumcising your kid, yes or no?

[KoolArrow]

[QUOTE=_aztec_princess_;1486502]Not necessarily, can you tell just by glancing at it?
QUOTE]

You should be able to tell. Unless he has a baby boner

Originally Posted by niaV

No one has the right to mutilate another person's body, especially for non-health reasons. Just because a child can't say 'no' doesn't make it more acceptable in my eyes.

As adults, they'll have that choice.

That's completely ridiculous. I have mutilated girls hymans, for their own good.

[Linda]

Originally Posted by KoolArrow

That's completely ridiculous. I have mutilated girls hymans, for their own good.

[KoolArrow]

pipe down you!

[ChicanoDan]

Originally Posted by niaV

Call it whatever you'd like, the bottom line is that in a lot of cases, circumcision is done for purely religious or hygienic reasons. At the end of the day, though, a cut guy who hasn't bathed in weeks is going to be a lot more rancid down there than an uncut guy who just showered, hopefully paying extra attention down there.

So religious and hygienic reasons aren't valid reasons for you?
That's a ridiculous strawman comparison.. A guy who doesn't wipe his ass for a week but shaves his balls when he showers is still going to be cleaner than a guy who doesn't shit has grown a full bush but never bathes... is just as appropriate an analogy

Originally Posted by niaV

Just because they make decisions, as adults, doesn't make them any more justifiable. A more extreme case of parent's making decisions dealing with their child's bodies would be the practice of FGM in many developing countries. They see it as more 'honorable', and it seems everyone gets a say in what happens to the victim's genitals, except the victim herself.

Again another reductio ad absurdem... Comparing Female genital mutilation to male circumcision is a shaky comparison at best.. one is an extremely painful oft time mentally and physically not to mention sexually crippling procedure that has no medically redeeming value. Where male circumcision can be argued at a minimum to have some hygienic value and causes nowhere near the tortuous damage FMG can cause.

Originally Posted by niaV

I'm against piercings babies and infants, too, since I can't see any good reason for it. It's purely aesthetics, no?

I don't disagree but again.. who are you or I to tell a parent they can or cannot pierce their little girls ? boy's ear?

Originally Posted by niaV

And that's another thing: no one should feel shamed for parts they were born with. This... disgust some people seem to have with it, reeks of superficiality, and if someone refused to date or have sex for that reason alone, they'd be doing me a favor in the long-run.

Of course not.. but like many things in this world what some find aesthetically pleasing differs from person to person. What kind of world would this be if all penis' looked the same? /sarcasm... My concern would be with mine and my progeny's .. superficiality not withstanding.. When the time comes I'll probably have him cut..

[_aztec_princess_]

^^ I wish the rep system was in place!

And I agree NiaV no one should be made to feel ashamed of their sexuality/penises.

[ChicanoDan]

Originally Posted by _aztec_princess_

^^ I wish the rep system was in place!

And I agree NiaV no one should be made to feel ashamed of their sexuality/penises.

Unless your dick looks like an anteater.. then you should be ashamed..



I keed I keed..

[niaV]

Originally Posted by ChicanoDan

So religious and hygienic reasons aren't valid reasons for you?
That's a ridiculous strawman comparison.. A guy who doesn't wipe his ass for a week but shaves his balls when he showers is still going to be cleaner than a guy who doesn't shit has grown a full bush but never bathes... is just as appropriate an analogy



Again another reductio ad absurdem... Comparing Female genital mutilation to male circumcision is a shaky comparison at best.. one is an extremely painful oft time mentally and physically not to mention sexually crippling procedure that has no medically redeeming value. Where male circumcision can be argued at a minimum to have some hygienic value and causes nowhere near the tortuous damage FMG can cause.



I don't disagree but again.. who are you or I to tell a parent they can or cannot pierce their little girls ? boy's ear?





Of course not.. but like many things in this world what some find aesthetically pleasing differs from person to person. What kind of world would this be if all penis' looked the same? My concern would be with mine and my progeny's .. superficiality not withstanding.. When the time comes I'll probably have him cut..

1) I'm not religious, so that's out of the question. As far as hygiene goes, a few extra minutes in the shower, seriously. The human body isn't some nice, perfectly sanitary area: there's wax, mucus, rheum, plaque, countless bacteria and parasites. No one thinks twice of these 'problems'. Removing foreskin for hygienic reasons seems a bit like overkill, if you ask me.

2) In both cases, it's the parents who make the choice of what happens to a child's body. It wasn't the best analogy, sure, but my point is that neither would volunteer at those ages. An infant doesn't know better than to make an informed decision, anyway, but nowhere does that translate to 'open season' for doing whatever adults please with their child's body.

3) It's not my place to tell parent's how to raise their offspring, but I'll be damned if I sit back and keep my opinions to myself when I heavily disagree with a practice. This is a public forum on the internet; I think I'm safe to criticize, disagree, and debate here. My case stands: piercing for the sole pleasure of the parent isn't a legitimate reason, in my book.

4) Is that your best line of reasoning? Circumcision as a means of promoting physical diversity? You're free to think so, but it seems a bit silly, considering how different penises are in width, length, shape, color, naturally. You'd have done a better job convincing me by listing a few of the health benefits. Whatever.

[_aztec_princess_]

Originally Posted by niaV

3) It's not my place to tell parent's how to raise their offspring, but I'll be damned if I sit back and keep my opinions to myself when I heavily disagree with a practice. This is a public forum on the internet; I think I'm safe to criticize, disagree, and debate here. My case stands: piercing for the sole pleasure of the parent isn't a legitimate reason, in my book.

I am glad you are expressing your opinion. I work with a lot of middle school girls, and a great majority of them wish they had had their ears pierced as babies. So maybe looking at the data in reverse might give better insight.

[ChicanoDan]

Originally Posted by niaV

1) I'm not religious, so that's out of the question. As far as hygiene goes, a few extra minutes in the shower, seriously. The human body isn't some nice, perfectly sanitary area: there's wax, mucus, rheum, plaque, countless bacteria and parasites. No one thinks twice of these 'problems'. Removing foreskin for hygienic reasons seems a bit like overkill, if you ask me.

YOU'RE not Religious.. neither am I.. but that doesn't count for a pile of shit to those who are and would do so for religious reasons.. This is by far the least compelling argument for Circumcision as far as I'm concerned as I discount nearly everything done in the name of religion, but if that's how someone rolls and they want to cut Jr's pinga for god and it's safe (unlike FGM) hey more power to 'em..

No the body isn't a nice sanitary clean room we all know that.. however no one can argue that a circumcised weiner is more hygienic easier to maintain so and less prone to diseases and infections.

Originally Posted by niaV

2) In both cases, it's the parents who make the choice of what happens to a child's body. It wasn't the best analogy, sure, but my point is that neither would volunteer at those ages. An infant doesn't know better than to make an informed decision, anyway, but nowhere does that translate to 'open season' for doing whatever adults please with their child's body.

An infant doesn't know to wipe his ass or bathe.. an adult has to do that for them .. an adult also has to have their child vaccinated, get their hair cut in whatever ridculous style they want, clothe feed and shelter their child, enroll them in school.. no child would volunteer at any age for any of those things.

Point being a parent does their best by what they know best. If what you are saying is that every child shuold make those decisions for themselves than why do we need parents at all?

Of course it doesn;t give every parent carte blanche to harm their child but circumcision is hardly child abuse

As for not being the best analogy it was one of the worst you could come up with.. Akin to feminazi's comparing a woman losing her virginity to being raped.. The two don't even come close

Originally Posted by niaV

3) It's not my place to tell parent's how to raise their offspring, but I'll be damned if I sit back and keep my opinions to myself when I heavily disagree with a practice. This is a public forum on the internet; I think I'm safe to criticize, disagree, and debate here. My case stands: piercing for the sole pleasure of the parent isn't a legitimate reason, in my book.

No one is saying you should keep your opinions to yourself .. this is an extremely open forum and plenty will agree or disagree accordingly. I don't stand nearly as strong for as you do against, but I would say that your rhetoric borders on the absurd and dips into it frequently when a case could be made against without the drama.

Originally Posted by niaV

4) Is that your best line of reasoning? Circumcision as a means of promoting physical diversity? You're free to think so, but it seems a bit silly, considering how different penises are in width, length, shape, color, naturally. You'd have done a better job convincing me by listing a few of the health benefits. Whatever.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you obviously missed the ironic sarcasm but that's ok I have a weird sense of humor and irony that not everyone gets.

You obviously are a bit defensive and sensitive about your anteater maybe you wish your parents had cut it to make it purty .. or it was cut and you wish your parents had left it an anteater.. Either way man.. chill.. It's only penis talk.

[CaliPac]

Both have their pro's & con's...

I actually thought I was circumcised for the longest time... then I realized... oh shit, this is foreskin lol... eh, it aint as "bad" as ppl make it out to be. And the whole lubrication and increase sensation and ease during handjobs is true, and should make sense to most ppl.

Whether girls like it or not is up to them (as noted in my previous post), but I've never had any remarks or weird faces made... I mean, if a girl is already tugging at your Johnson or has it at eye level, she's probably not gonna get all picky about dick all of a sudden.

My son is circumcised, just cause I figured that was the norm nowadays.... he sometimes complains about his skin feeling pulled back too much and I worry about maybe too much skin having been cut off. Hopefully it was the right choice.

[KoolArrow]

Originally Posted by CaliPac

My son is circumcised, just cause I figured that was the norm nowadays.... he sometimes complains about his skin feeling pulled back too much and I worry about maybe too much skin having been cut off. Hopefully it was the right choice.

Apparently, you mutilated your sons cock. I hope thats something you can live with.

You should have gave him the option to walk into a doctors office as an adult and experience the excruciating pain and recovery time of having his dick snipped, as an adult.

[ChicanoDan]

Originally Posted by KoolArrow

Apparently, you mutilated your sons cock. I hope thats something you can live with.

You should have gave him the option to walk into a doctors office as an adult and experience the excruciating pain and recovery time of having his dick snipped, as an adult.

I would so Rep this if I could.. or is it rec?.. Hell I don't know.. shits funny though

[niaV]

Originally Posted by ChicanoDan

YOU'RE not Religious.. neither am I.. but that doesn't count for a pile of shit to those who are and would do so for religious reasons.. This is by far the least compelling argument for Circumcision as far as I'm concerned as I discount nearly everything done in the name of religion, but if that's how someone rolls and they want to cut Jr's pinga for god and it's safe (unlike FGM) hey more power to 'em..

No the body isn't a nice sanitary clean room we all know that.. however no one can argue that a circumcised weiner is more hygienic easier to maintain so and less prone to diseases and infections.

And no one is telling them not to, though, male circumcision isn't really mentioned in the New Testament, and certainly isn't a requirement for Christian boys. It was an Old Testament agreement to show the relationship between God and the Jews. You already know I'm against the practice, so it should come as no surprise that where another pet peeve of mine, 'religious' folk misinterpreting The Bible, meets this practice, I see no good justification behind it.

On top of my belief that parents shouldn't impose their religious beliefs on children, of course. Too individualistic for you?

Uh, yeah, sure. I'm uncut, all three of my brothers are also uncut, as well as a couple of my childhood friends, and there have been no diseases or infections. They can still happen, sure, but I see no reason to go that far for something that isn't guaranteed even guaranteed, or even likely to happen. In the case that some serious problem comes up, fine. Hygiene doesn't do much to convince me, certainly not one of those 'must' arguments.

From an early age I was taught to take extra care down there, so I wouldn't be surprised if I were more hygienic in bathing habits than some cut guys.

Originally Posted by ChicanoDan

An infant doesn't know to wipe his ass or bathe.. an adult has to do that for them .. an adult also has to have their child vaccinated, get their hair cut in whatever ridculous style they want, clothe feed and shelter their child, enroll them in school.. no child would volunteer at any age for any of those things.

Point being a parent does their best by what they know best. If what you are saying is that every child shuold make those decisions for themselves than why do we need parents at all?

Of course it doesn;t give every parent carte blanche to harm their child but circumcision is hardly child abuse

As for not being the best analogy it was one of the worst you could come up with.. Akin to feminazi's comparing a woman losing her virginity to being raped.. The two don't even come close

Lol.. no one mentioned 'child abuse'. And you can't compare a haircut, clothes, schooling, and vaccination to circumcision. Hair grows back, clothes can be outgrown, replaced, or discarded, schooling (why is this even being compared to circumcision in the first place?) is a lot more variable, and less set in stone. A foreskin can't be grown back, but someone who still has it can always make the decision to get an operation done and experience both. Someone who had it done as a baby won't even remember the experience and never know what it would have been like.

And plenty of parents think they 'know best', but that doesn't automatically make their perceptions any more realistic. I'll spare you more extreme examples and let you use your imagination to see where I'm going with this. Bottom line: it's not the best line of reasoning.

Originally Posted by ChicanoDan

No one is saying you should keep your opinions to yourself .. this is an extremely open forum and plenty will agree or disagree accordingly. I don't stand nearly as strong for as you do against, but I would say that your rhetoric borders on the absurd and dips into it frequently when a case could be made against without the drama.

If you were made to feel 'defective' and 'filthy' for keeping the parts you were born with, you might see it differently. As it is, many circumcised men will become overly defensive when this topic comes up, so imagine if you were in the minority and had to put up with bs comments from society constantly (look in this thread, your own posts, if you don't believe me).

This probably comes secondary to the fact that circumcision 1) isn't a requirement for Christians 2) isn't mandatory for good health or hygiene, even labeled by the American Academy of Pediatrics as unnecessary 3) infringes on bodily integrity. Children are individuals too, no?

Originally Posted by ChicanoDan

You obviously are a bit defensive and sensitive about your anteater maybe you wish your parents had cut it to make it purty .. or it was cut and you wish your parents had left it an anteater.. Either way man.. chill.. It's only penis talk.

Tell you what: stop using ridiculous terms like 'anteater' and I'll 'chill'. If that's too much for even you to do, then you have no right to bitch and moan over my so-called 'defensiveness'.

[KoolArrow]

Originally Posted by niaV

If you were made to feel 'defective' and 'filthy' for keeping the parts you were born with, you might see it differently. As it is, many circumcised men will become overly defensive when this topic comes up, so imagine if you were in the minority and had to put up with bs comments from society constantly (look in this thread, your own posts, if you don't believe me).

Sounds like you're projecting, when you accuse others of being defensive. Especially if you feel you're part of the group that is "defective".
Since when is the majority; the group likely to be "overly defensive"?

[niaV]

Originally Posted by KoolArrow

Sounds like you're projecting, when you accuse others of being defensive. Especially if you feel you're part of the group that is "defective".
Since when is the majority; the group likely to be "overly defensive"?

Not quite. Numbers mean little in this case, since people are still people, and very few people enjoy feeling attacked for physical features they have little control over. Walk into an area full of white people and start joking around about their skin, hair, facial features, etc either subtly or blatantly. You're damn right they're going to become defensive and retaliate, even being a majority.

That said, I've seen this debate pop up all over the internet countless times, and you get hurt feelings from both sides. Usually, most male supporters are circumcised themselves, while opponents aren't, though sometimes you get a few who wish they had or hadn't been. Add male ego into the mix, and you get a never-ending 'debate'.

[ChicanoDan]

No Debate here at all.. this was a light hearted (for the most part) discussion until you mentioned mutilation.

I'm not sure what it is that has your panties in a bunch.. you're not cut.. you prefer not to be.. so why would you be so opposed to a procedure that doesn't affect you in anyway?

Judging from your posts you seem to be the type of person who opposes someone else imposing their belief system on others.. Does it not smack of hipocrisy for you to do the same?

I could see you being so hell bent against it if you had been clipped and swore to the sweet baby circumcised Hayzoos himself that you would never do the same to your kid..

Sounds like to me there are deeper issues than your unmutilated penis at work here.. Maybe the need to grow a pair and not be so sensitive about people having fun at your penis' expense is called for ..

Either way.. lighten up meng.. Nobody is forcing you to do anything and we're all just busting balls..







....No go home and play with your anteater..

[Cal]

Hey ChicanoDan! Go home and play with Nelio's anteater.

[ChicanoDan]

How would you know he has one?

[Cal]

You told me.

[ChicanoDan]

I wouldn't share such things with the likes of your necrophiliac ass..

I still question if he even has a penis.. much less an uncircumcised one.. you tell me does he?

[Nelio]

There is one person on this site who could tell you for sure. But I am sure you wont ask her!

[GrimmStabnandez]

Damn that dude got all butt hurt....sheesh is not like they're castrating the mocosos or something. It's just circumcision.

[Nelio]

Let me ask this NiaV. Say you didnt have a choice. Say you HAD to get circumcised, would you prefer it was when you were a baby or have waited til you were almost an adult?

[KoolArrow]

Originally Posted by niaV

That said, I've seen this debate pop up all over the internet countless times, and you get hurt feelings from both sides. Usually, most male supporters are circumcised themselves, while opponents aren't, though sometimes you get a few who wish they had or hadn't been. Add male ego into the mix, and you get a never-ending 'debate'.

What kind of websites are you having these discussions? I mean, are these websites for gay dudes? Just curious.

[ChicanoDan]

Originally Posted by KoolArrow

What kind of websites are you having these discussions? I mean, are these websites for gay dudes? Just curious.

Bullshit curious .. You know u troll those sites for gay ass all the time