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View Poll Results: Do you consider yourself hispanic?
Yes 13 26.00%
No 29 58.00%
I think this ? is dumb(mostly likely get the most) 8 16.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-13-2004
Valen1 Valen1 is offline
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Default Hispanic vs. Latin

I have posted this in so many forum sites in the past and not sure if anyone else posted it here. I respect those who want to called themself whatever they want. what ever makes you feel proud and good. not a good idea to hate someone on their belief or for thier mental acceptance!
now in days arguing about Identity is like arguing about religion.
Can we all Just get along!

Here is A Discussion On The Meaning Of The Words Hispanic and Latin!

Many people are confused as to the proper use of the terms Hispanic and Latin. Spanish speakers are themselves in disagreement as to how these two terms should be applied. Both sides of this contentious issue feel very strongly about their positions and pose valid arguments. The following is an attempt to settle the issue in a scholarly rather than emotional fashion. The author believes that if we know what these words originally meant, it might be easier to draw the appropriate conclusions and use the words as they were intended to be used.

The Origins
The first time that we hear the word Latin was in the time just prior to the Roman Empire in what is now called Italy. A tribe of people who called themselves Latins appeared in Italy and began to subjugate their neighbors. Their country was called Latium, their capital city was Rome and the language they spoke was, of course, Latin. Later, when the Romans invaded Iberia (Spain), they found many different tribes there.

Eventually they conquered most of the peninsula, and in the southwest of Iberia they found a city called Hispalis (Seville). It is not clear if Hispalis was originally Greek or Phoenician. From the name it appears that the city was originally a Greek colony (Hispalus was a mythical Greek hero who was related to Hercules). At the time of the Roman conquest the city was occupied by a tribe of Celtiberians, a mixture of Celts and Iberians.

The Romans eventually annexed the Iberian peninsula and made it a province which they called Hispania, most probably named after the city of Hispalis. Later, the Romans divided their new province into two parts, Hispania Citerior (closer Spain) and Hispania Ulterior (farther Spain). Although there were other divisions later, these were the official names of Iberia throughout the Roman Empire, and would remain so until the fall of the Empire.

It should be understood then, that the word España comes from the Latin word Hispania and not the other way around. The word Hispania then, in ancient times referred to the people and eventually to the culture of the Iberian peninsula. It was probably the Anglo-Saxons who, having difficulty pronouncing the Latin word Hispania, that coined the English term, Hispanic.

As Rome added more territory to her empire, she began to impose her language and ways on the conquered people. This eventually led to the creation of several new languages which are now called Latin or Romance languages (Romance as used here has nothing to do with amorous relations, it is a reference to the city of Rome). Several Latin countries were also created, France, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Albania and Romania. In summation the term Latin originally referred to the following:

1) The name of the tribes of people which eventually started the Roman
Empire and the name of the language that they spoke.

2) The official language of the Roman Catholic church.

3) An individual from a country that speaks a Latin language.

The Modern Meanings
The modern use of the term Hispanic is given to us by the need of the US government to count its ever increasing number of Spanish speaking people. The US government realized early on that these Spanish speaking people did not have any unifying physical characteristics such as color of skin, texture of hair, shape of eyes, etc. As such, these Spanish speakers could not be categorized as members of a single race. In addition to that these Spanish speakers did not even share a common religion. In order to count its Spanish speaking citizens, the US government needed a category other than "White," "Black", "Native American" or "Asian". Thus the term "Hispanic" was included on all government forms and applications requiring such information. Eventually, the term made its way into the private sector as well.

This practice, however, has lead to some additional confusion, since the other categories "White" "Black", etc. refer to race while "Hispanic" was intended to refer to a cultural or ethnic group. In Europe Latins are generally accepted to be individuals coming from a country where a Latin language is spoken. Individuals coming from France, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Albania and Romania are called Latins. The European view of Latin America is simply as a geographical location. Someone from Venezuela, for instance will be seen as Latin American but not necessarily as Latin. A subtle, but nonetheless accurate distinction. The European view of the term Hispanic is fairly precise. It refers to Spain, its culture, the Spanish speaking people of Latin America and/or their culture.

It is in the US that the terms Latin and Hispanic are often misapplied and confused. The terms mean different things to different people. In some areas of the US, for instance, Puerto Ricans and Cubans are considered Latinos but Mexicans and Colombians are not. In other areas Latin and Latino mean different things. I have even heard some individuals say that the term Hispanic was created by the "Anglos" in order to lump us all together and in the same breath say that the term Hispano is good because it tends to bring the Spanish speaking people together. Go figure.


So, What Are We, Latin or Hispanic ?
Some of us are Latin, some of us are not, but all of us are Hispanic. As genealogical and historical researchers, and especially for the sake of future researchers, I think it's our responsibility to assure that our culture and people are portrayed as accurately as possible. If we must be categorized, then let us be categorized with an inclusive rather than an exclusive term. A term that unites us, rather than divides us. Let us use the term Hispanic. It includes all of us accurately without regard to race, creed, color or national origin.

by Al Sosa
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Old 03-13-2004
ChicanoDan ChicanoDan is offline
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That is so wrong on so Many levels I don't even know where to begin..

We are neither..

The True Hispanics Aren't even found on this continent...

I find it SHOCKiNg that this Al Sosa...the Dude can't be MExican he just can't be.... Would even have the sack to scoff at the idea that Hispanic is a Govt imposed label...

I won't even address "Latino" here because the article does some to discredit it.. and to some extent tries to push the even more troublesome Hispanic.

Someone please tell me if Being Mexicano is the same as being Prican?

WHat about Cuban?

Or Hell even Chicano?

Someone can you please tell me what Hispanic Culture is...

There is no such thing as HISPANIC CULTURE..


Wow......

It sickens me to my stomach and ,makes my blood boil to think that people still think this way...


Damn

I'm speechless

Please tell me Valen that you are not one to buy in to this homogenistic mindset..

..........


I'm tired...was up late last night...and need to sort through my thoughts on this Gahrbahge... cuz I don't want to insult....but I have to voice my opinion against those who would write so non chalantly contra Mexicanismo.. Chicanismo.... ...

Wow....
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  #3  
Old 03-13-2004
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I agree with ChicanoDan 100%

My reason is simple:

I have no arguement with my Spanish (Hispanic) roots; also in the European mix according to my family tree is French.

BUT what the term "Hispanic" omits is my (and ours collectively) Indigenous roots. By classifying myself "Hispanic" is denying my ancestors from the Apache, Yaqui and Purempecha (Tarasco).

I deny my Abuelita who was 100% Purempecha.

This is unfathomnable to my soul.

SOY CHICANO...not Hispanic, not Latino.
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Old 03-13-2004
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Default re:

got it on the net sometime ago, I think about two years ago or so. I don't think his point is about culture, I think is about where our language came from and why we are called or label these things! I personaly never accepted as true or real on the term Latino or Hispanic as a culture.
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Old 03-13-2004
Pro_MexicanIndigenous Pro_MexicanIndigenous is offline
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hispanic vs latin, whats the difference.


Alrato!
BROWN PRIDE WORLD WIDE
AZTLAN MENTALITY
LET IT BE KNOWN, ITS NATIVE OWNED
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  #6  
Old 03-24-2004
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I know that not all of us are Hispanic and this lumps us all toghether without regard to culture. This WAS imposed on by the US government. However, i do think other people from other Latin American countries are my brothers and sisters because we have some commonalities and some history together. I do not deny my Indian heritage and I do not deny my Spanish heritage either.
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Old 03-25-2004
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Ive always given million word explanations on this.


but not this time im gonna get to the point.


If your Mexican........then thats exactley what you are MEXICAN (Native American)


NOT HISPANIC........and NOT LATINO........not MESTIZO.....and ANYTHING ELSE!


Im so tired of all these people "well i accept my white roots too"

man fuck that.........those white roots are ROOTS that were raped into our mothers.


AND ANOTHER THING..........for all of you who claim that their was normal sex going on........


OK........maybe so..........but only after the conquest of cortez........which means only after the killing and slaughtering of our people.......


which means this would have never happened or should i say.......this would never be allowed if our ancestors were in power.


Some one tell me about Mexicas mixing with spanish while our people were strong and held power?

only the malinche........and it was her that helped the spanish destroy our people.



STOP CLAIMING DIFFRENT BLOODS.........


damn it you know if your Mexican or not.....why the bull shit?


why diffrent identitys?


if your MEXICAN your MEXICAN.......not Chicano (FUCK BEING CHICANO) not LATIN OR HISPANIC (FUCK BEING ALL THAT 2 TIMES AS MUCH)


IF YOUR MEXICAN YOUR MEXICAN......no need to add extra lables or identitys!


GOT IT? WE ARE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.......MEXICAN PEOPLE!
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Old 03-25-2004
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But if someone raped your mother...which i dont deny. someone had to be doing the raping your father. no? and no matter how much you try to deny it you do still have his blood.
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Old 03-25-2004
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and another thing to all you "Mix" people......


I half a sister.....(believe it or not) thats half white half Mexican.


DO I CONSIDER HER MEXICAN?

YES

but why?


beacuse she never claims being white.



(shes denying her self) you might say!

WRONG


My sister grew up eating beans and rice....my sisters main language is Spanish (although not the Mexican language) my sister breaths eats sleeps and had her kids with a full blooded Mexican man.


My sister never claims to be white only when it suites her right.......she always claims to be Mexican.......the only way anyone would ever find out shes white is if they looked at her birth cirtificate.



is she wrong? HELL NO!


why should she claim to be white?

she didint grow up around white people

she dosent act white

she dosent eat macarony and cheese

she dosent say "like whatever" every other word......


See being Mexican is embracing our ways 100% and living our ways 100%



I hate it when people say "Well im white and Mexican"

damn how i cant stand that.......


will you just choose a side?

beacuse if u dont........Mexicans will never accept you for being a real Mexican (hence why alot of mixed people are called "huera" or "huero")

and white people will never see you as one of their own.


wether you like it or not you have to choose a side.

and if u dont......then dont say ur white and Mexican......beacuse their 2 completley diffrent words with two completley diffrent meanings........each standing and representing itself as 1 not 2 combined.


if u claim both then u claim "Mixed" and u fall under the category of all people who are mixed with 2 diffrent ethnicitys but it dosent mean ur both.


Mexican represent Indian blood 100% in its original context


as White represent European bloods 100% in its original context......


you cant have 100% blood of each in your body.....


get what im saying?


try to figure out what im saying.....its the TRUTH.....its logical.......and is common sense .......you just gotta really think about it.


theirs no way around it.........its concrete facts..........
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  #10  
Old 03-25-2004
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if i claim to be a white mexican. i should be accepted by both and that is what society has to work toward.
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  #11  
Old 03-25-2004
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sorry homie, but, nemi is right. whites won't accept you, unless you lose the tan, and drop the spanish. mexicans wont accept you, unless you stop eating hot dogs, and start living with acutal mexcaidad. it is the way it is. and, it won't change any time soon. i know, i tried, let me tell you, there is nothing worse, than haveing both races be racist at you.
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  #12  
Old 03-25-2004
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Listen i havent seen my father since i was 2 years old.......

and u know what?

i dont recognize him

u think im gonna be like


(yeah but hes my father so im part of what he is)


PLEASE.......

the only blood i represent is my mothers blood that pumps through my heart.


I know i have my fathers blood in me.......but i dont represent it.


It dosent mean im in denial.........it means theirs no honor in representing his.......for reasons i dont feel need to say.


You guys runn around parading both side like its something good..........claiming that ur not gonna deny whats in u.


My "Father" is not my father........my mom was both for me.........


as those Spanish bastards are not my fathers..........a father is some one who raises u and teaches u and cares for u.


Do u think those Spanish soldiers gave two shits about us?


i mean maybe ......it could be.......thats why they gave us such a nice name........" Hijos de la Chingada"

go and parade that around.........dont deny that........go and tell people that ur an "Hijo de la chingada"


i mean beacuse u cant deny it right?

everytime u look in the mirror know that ur an "Hijo de la chingada"


u can do that.......and look at ur white fathers too........the men that laughed at had competitions testing out whose Sword was the sharpest by seeing who could slice our REAL FATHER in half with one stroke.


dont deny ur white daddy..........


I wont either.....i just sent the fuckers and their history to hell.



and another thing.........500 thousand soldiers does not compare to 30 million natives.


and with over 500 years passed.......even if u were half Spanish and half indian back in the days........chances are that 90% of the time those "Mixed" ended up having babies with full blooded Natives wich strengthened the Indigenous blood.

Which is why most Mexicans are brown........and even if ur not.....and u have green eyes....and are light skinned........dosent mean u have more spanish blood.......it just means that those DNA genes were more dominant......it dosent mean shit.


Their can be a dark brown Mexican like me.....and a white Mexican.....and we can have just as much Indian blood.


just means his pigmentation genes were more dominant towards white skin.


On the other hand....i can be a hairy dark Mexican......and we all know being hairy came from the Spanish blood.


and the White Mexican can have almost no hairs.......which we all know that the Natives had no hair.........


u see its about genes and how their dominant in diffrent physical characterisitics it has nothing to do with being more spanish or white.


I am Mexica

nothing else........i am of Indigenous blood and nothing else.


And if u cant tell by my skin...or my physicall features (which on me u can)

u can tell by the size of my heart and spirit!


fuck all the bull shit..........MEXICA and thats where it ends.
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  #13  
Old 03-25-2004
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i know. and ok. i go to college and sometimes i feel like a sell out. this is so because i am not working like my parents and i am not doing what most mexicans do. i feel as if people think that i am snobby and trying to be better than them when i am not. i go to school becuz i was given the opportunity. i feel as if i feel this way becuz i am not accepted by the mexicans. and clearly i will never be accepted by white people as one of their own. and well, i do not want to be. I LOVE BEING MEXICAN. true sometimes i think things would be easier if i were white but thats a diff story. so i will be the first to admit that yea what she says is true. what i am saying is that if someone introduces themself as a white mexican we ourselves should accept them. we should not judge them and be like well they wanna be mexican and this is hard to do but i feel that if we accept them as mexican or as chicano or as whatever they identify themselves with we are helping the problem.
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Old 03-25-2004
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or possibly with just who we are period. if i were to say, cause, like nemi, i don't know my father, but, he was the mexican. he never loved me, my german mother did. she, and a shit load of others raised me. man, im brandon. no more, no less, i know what i stand for, i know what i teach, what i tell others. i know the truth about both sides of my blood line. i know how i live. i know that the concept of being me, means, that i have to give up all other concepts, even the one, of being me.
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Old 03-25-2004
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What i mean to say is that you cannot deny whats in your blood. You dont need to be proud of it or embrace it but you cannot deny what is there.
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Old 03-25-2004
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No we are helping them be fake.....and accepting fakeness to our people.



a white Mexican?


never heard of such thing........


can u point out the WhiteMexican flag?

or the WHITEMEXICAN language?

or the WHITEMEXICAN TERRITORY?

OR THE WHITEMEXICAN CULTURE?


dosent exist........beacuse white and Mexican are 2 completley diffrent categorys that represent themselves 100% in their independant context.


they cant be united beacause they are bothh 100%


we know 100% means "FULL" or MAXIMUM



so if their is such thing as 100% white and 100% Mexican..........when people call themselves white mexicans they have 200% blood?


Thats not rational nor possible....they would be like a freak creature lol.......



this is why i say to read what i type carefully........i usually dont explain everything to explict detail.....beacuse i figure if u all do some figuring out for yourselves.......it sticks in ur mind more...and u get it better.



but again........being white and Mexican cannot exist.......the only name that can exist for some one.......and hence how i word this.......for some one who " HAD A MEXICAN FATHER and a WHITE MOTHER...WHO PRODUCED A CHILD" the only category for them is "MIXED"



SAD......not really NICE........NOT SOMETHING I WOULD WANNA BE..........

and thats why im against interacial mixing........thats why im against diversity in countries.........


but people dont understand that.........beacuse America teaches everyone to think that everyone who dosen think like an American is racist evil...and now a terrorist LMAO.


anyways goodnight ill be back tommorow
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  #17  
Old 03-25-2004
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night homie, see you then.
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  #18  
Old 03-25-2004
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Quote:
but people dont understand that.........beacuse America teaches everyone to think that everyone who dosen think like an American is racist evil...and now a terrorist LMAO.
and this is exactly what we have to fight. And we have to start with ourselves we have to understand other people'e experiences. Understand that the feel they are white mexican. Even though it does not exist this is how they identify and if we choose to shun them we are perpetuating the "American" teachings.
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Old 03-25-2004
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wait now its about what they feel?


i thought u couldent deny whats inside u?



"Even though it does not exist this is how they identify and if we choose to shun them we are perpetuating the "American" teachings."



bull shit......what were doing is seperating lies from truth!


and that is in no way "American"



why do u keep defending the White Mexican idea........


do u have alot of white friends?


are u dating a white girl?


whats the reason behind u supporting people calling themselves white Mexicans?

or accepting their spanish blood that........well i already explained that!


Dont take it the wrong way.......im a carnal to any real mexican.


but sometimes people who think the way u do.......is beacuse they have a.......whats the proper word..........a........."Investment" in the American-white life.

not saying u do......im just saying sometimes thats the case.


So tell me......when facts are presented......and logical explanation is broken down to u....with facts........why do u still support people calling themselves "White Mexicans" even though its completley fake and theirs no such thing.


??????????????????????????????
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Old 03-25-2004
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i do have an investment. i am 100% mexican. and i do have white friends not a lot but some 3 that i consider my friends but i hope to gain more. the investment that i have in it though is not for them. its for mexicans in general. whose to tell you what is mexican and what is white. if you have a "mixed" family. yea you can identify with both and that does not make you less of either.
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Old 03-25-2004
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Whose to tell some one if their Mexican or white?


oh common!


how about............HISTORY..........
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Old 03-25-2004
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Somos Mexicanos y asta ahi! Si uno quiere ser otra cosa, a la chingada con esa madre.....vendidos es la palabra.....

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Old 03-25-2004
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Why do we have to choose. It is exactly this mentality that makes us be unaccepted. We DONT have to choose. We can identify with being white and we can identify with being Mexican and we can benifit from both. Being white is not a bad thing! In fact if you identify with both you can be an asset to the commmunity.
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Old 03-25-2004
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If you choose to identify with being Mexican and White, go ahead. Its your life and the decisions you make affects you and only you. Odd though, no mas cuando te combiene eres anglo y cuando no eres Mexicano.

This mentality? How does this mentality make us unaccepted? Because we choose to not integrate to the white mans culture?
I must be doing something wrong then. I have my culture and traditions but yet I'm accepted and even if I were not, does it really matter?

I hope by culture you do not mean the American way because well, that is not White culture, but a mixture.

This reminds me of what my pastor used to tell me, one day someone can be religious but the next not be due to the circumstances at hand...

Loyal...
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Old 03-25-2004
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Quote:
This mentality? How does this mentality make us unaccepted? Because we choose to not integrate to the white mans culture?
I must be doing something wrong then. I have my culture and traditions but yet I'm accepted and even if I were not, does it really matter?
By that i meant that with that mentality you make other mexicans feel not mexican. At least in my experience some people think that I am not a real Mexican because i live in the United States. And i consider myself to be 100% Mexican. And I am not white so i do not identify but my argument is for the people that do. I should not say that someone is less Mexican because they also identify with white. This way they will not feel rejected. By taking care of how I make people feel i am being part of the solution.
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