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Old 07-06-2013
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Default The Virgin of Guadalupe question

So I grew up in a family that was nominally Catholic but non-practicing. Maybe a better way to describe it would be that there was a generational drift away from Catholicism; I myself am a Nichiren Buddhist. Something I've never really understood is the emphasis on the Virgin of Guadalupe. Of course I can read about the significance of this figure and come to an intellectual understanding of why she's is important, but what I would really like to read would be first hand accounts of what people understand the Virgin to represent, (what she represents to them,) what they were taught as children and their own experiences.

Maybe this will help me understand why she's on cars, under people's mailboxes, on homeboys' t-shirts, and inside of modified bathtubs in people's front lawns.
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Old 07-06-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe

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Originally Posted by Masaru View Post
So I grew up in a family that was nominally Catholic but non-practicing. Maybe a better way to describe it would be that there was a generational drift away from Catholicism; I myself am a Nichiren Buddhist. Something I've never really understood is the emphasis on the Virgin of Guadalupe. Of course I can read about the significance of this figure and come to an intellectual understanding of why she's is important, but what I would really like to read would be first hand accounts of what people understand the Virgin to represent, (what she represents to them,) what they were taught as children and their own experiences.

Maybe this will help me understand why she's on cars, under people's mailboxes, on homeboys' t-shirts, and inside of modified bathtubs in people's front lawns.
I was raised pretty Catholic (I went to church every Sunday, Catechism, made my first holy communion, confirmation, etc) but am now an agnostic, as a semi-grown up.
She is a cultural symbol thats embraced by many Catholic Chicanos, that differentiates them from other sects of Christianity; since most others sects of Christianity don't recognize her as a saint. I guess other sects of Christiantity just see her as the vehicle through which Jesus Christ was born and nothing else, whereas Catholics think of her as being divine, since she is the mother of God.
So I guess thats what has made her such an iconic figure amongst Chicanos/Latinos/Catholics. Plus she's a firme hyna and who doesnt love a firme hyna?
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Old 07-06-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe

This is not too related to the question but I just heard an Islamic lecture on Mary which is genealogically related to la Virgen about her significance and representation of a good righteous person....


example of what God would want followers to be...
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Old 07-08-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

Just like the term Chicano, when you ask about the Virgin de Guadalupe, you get a different answer.
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Old 07-08-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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Originally Posted by Masaru View Post
Maybe this will help me understand why she's on cars, under people's mailboxes, on homeboys' t-shirts, and inside of modified bathtubs in people's front lawns.
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Originally Posted by sweetnspicy79 View Post
The last sentence you posted makes you seem like an arrogant patronizing ass fool.
My location says West Texas. Currently, I'm back there.

One day I was walking down the street and passed by several houses with a kind of shrine to La Virgen in their front lawns. One of these literally is inside of a modified bathtub. I had also noticed the iconography on a lot of t-shirts and was actually feeling a bit bummed that there's no Buddhist community where I live. That night I had a dream that the streets were lined with statues of Guan Yin, (also called Avalokiteshvara, a bodhisattva or saint who has manifestations that appear similar to the Virgin of Guadalupe or Mary,) and that picked up my spirits a bit. It got me kind of curious as to why people latch onto the figure of La Virgen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl View Post
Just like the term Chicano, when you ask about the Virgin de Guadalupe, you get a different answer.
Very true, though there are some answers to that question that would likely never be given. In that sense, even in the apparent randomness I think I can make out a broad picture of an idea's significance, of how and why people "make it their own" with those kind of answers.

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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
Plus she's a firme hyna and who doesnt love a firme hyna?


Aside from being a incredibly sacreligious subject, I would think that any female, ordinary, divine, or enlightened with a name like "La Virgen" would be a bit frigid. But, since we're going there, I've always favored the Tibetan's tantric figure "Vajrayogini."

Something I thought was pretty interesting was the picture of Guan Yin featured on the cover of Lowrider magazine, though obviously the artists exhibit they covered was more related to Eastern culture than Buddhism specifically.


Last edited by Masaru; 07-08-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 07-08-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

I recommend searching for 'Guadalupe' in this forum.
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Old 07-08-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl View Post
I recommend searching for 'Guadalupe' in this forum.
The history I already know. The possible connection to indigenous practices, etc., but I'm looking more for people's personal meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow View Post
This is not too related to the question but I just heard an Islamic lecture on Mary which is genealogically related to la Virgen about her significance and representation of a good righteous person....


example of what God would want followers to be...
This is something that I can understand. I wonder if this is also a Catholic view.
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Old 07-10-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe

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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
since most others sects of Christianity don't recognize her as a saint. I guess other sects of Christiantity just see her as the vehicle through which Jesus Christ was born and nothing else, whereas Catholics think of her as being divine, since she is the mother of God.
I was raised Catholic and was never given any real explanation except for what KoolArrow has pointed out - she is to be revered because she is the mother of God.

Although Free's point of how Mary is considered the epitome of a good, righteous (and fearful) person is something I haven't heard before but it makes sense.
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Old 07-10-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

I've always heard, and understood it the way Free explained it. Mixed in with a little bit of how KA explains it.
She was a righteous individual, whom was chosen by God. A vessel.
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Old 07-11-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

Puras.
Pinches.
Mentiras.

Just another tool to subjugate the masses.
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Old 07-11-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

^^ I beg your pardon? I, sir, am not lying. Those are the things that I was told/taught she was/is.
The question wasn't what we believed in, the question was, actually, what we understand the virgen to be and what we might have been taught.
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Old 07-11-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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^^ I beg your pardon? I, sir, am not lying. Those are the things that I was told/taught she was/is.
The question wasn't what we believed in, the question was, actually, what we understand the virgen to be and what we might have been taught.
My apologies, I was not referring to your reply but the subject matter at hand..

The whole Guadalupe myth as well as most anything where it relates to Mexicanos and Christianity is a long and sad history of subjugation and foolishness.
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Old 07-11-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

I wasn't raised Catholic so I have no real say in the matter (aside from she looks pretty damn cool airbrushed on the hood of an Impala).
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Old 07-11-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

I am thinking that Virgin Mary on an impala is a lot better than on the cover of this magazine...
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journal...ini-sunglasses
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Old 07-11-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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Originally Posted by ChicanoDan View Post
My apologies, I was not referring to your reply but the subject matter at hand..

The whole Guadalupe myth as well as most anything where it relates to Mexicanos and Christianity is a long and sad history of subjugation and foolishness.
Well, apparently, not everyone thinks that way. Otherwise you wouldn't have so many Mexicanos who practice it. With all due respect for what I'm about to post, but who are you to tell a person that what they believe in is a "myth"? I mean, who's saying that your atheist beliefs are silly? (no e-fight intended. Just sayin)
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I wasn't raised Catholic so I have no real say in the matter (aside from she looks pretty damn cool airbrushed on the hood of an Impala).
You don't necessarily have to be raised a certain way to have an opinion or view of something. I'm sure that somewhere along the way you've read about her, heard about what she's supposed to represent.

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I am thinking that Virgin Mary on an impala is a lot better than on the cover of this magazine...
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journal...ini-sunglasses
See...KoolArrow was right....she is a "firme hyna".
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Old 07-11-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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Well, apparently, not everyone thinks that way. Otherwise you wouldn't have so many Mexicanos who practice it.
My understanding was that tradition says that La Virgen made her apparation as a way of showing her favor for or protection of the indigenous peoples. Is that not correct?
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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You don't necessarily have to be raised a certain way to have an opinion or view of something. I'm sure that somewhere along the way you've read about her, heard about what she's supposed to represent.
Shes a nice symbol. Very aesthetic. If I had an Impala, she'd be airbrushed on the hood. No doubt. Maybe with Teotihuacan in the background.
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Old 07-11-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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Well, apparently, not everyone thinks that way. Otherwise you wouldn't have so many Mexicanos who practice it.
Its called subjugation/colonization. Thats why. She was/is made to look the way she does because of the indigenous relationship to their gods/beliefs. In other words helped to convert those soles which in turn were passed along all the way til now.

You also have plenty of latin american countries who in mass are ruled by their "religious" belief and in turn has kept their people ass backwards in some respects.
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Old 07-11-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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Originally Posted by Masaru View Post
My understanding was that tradition says that La Virgen made her apparation as a way of showing her favor for or protection of the indigenous peoples. Is that not correct?
If you read the Nican Mophua, oldest account of the story, it does seem that way, at least the Nahuatl text and not the Spanish translation.
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Old 07-12-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl View Post
Just like the term Chicano, when you ask about the Virgin de Guadalupe, you get a different answer.
Tec relates to her, as a fellow virgin
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Old 07-12-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
Tec relates to her, as a fellow virgin
Hey hey hey. I have gotten more female ass than you.
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Old 07-12-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

Grabbing nalga at a Grupo Nahuatl concert does not count as getting female ass///
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Old 07-12-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

awww
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Old 07-14-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

I would never simply just dismiss the symbolic power the virgen or anything else that brown folks use to make it through bullshit as just colonization...

my mom goes to church every sunday... and that is her solace... her space... her relationship... i don't agree but don't just dismiss it for her and others... i think that's pretty pompous and if an academic or someone like that dismissed working class people's experiences as foolishness then folks would probably b offended/defensive bout that...
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Old 07-14-2013
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Default Re: The Virgin of Guadalupe question

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I would never simply just dismiss the symbolic power the virgen or anything else that brown folks use to make it through bullshit as just colonization...

my mom goes to church every sunday... and that is her solace... her space... her relationship... i don't agree but don't just dismiss it for her and others... i think that's pretty pompous and if an academic or someone like that dismissed working class people's experiences as foolishness then folks would probably b offended/defensive bout that...
I think its arrogant to even be an Atheist. Its like being a fundamentalist but on the opposite end of the spectrum. No one knows how the universe came to be, if there is a soul, what happens to the energy that we're all made of once we die and so on. Sure people can speculate and regurgitate the scientific findings and theories, but to keep things in perspective, we're just a few generations removed from blood letting and shit like that. Its foolish to really think we're all that sophisticated at this point in our history.
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