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View Poll Results: Have you read Broken Spears?
Yes 8 53.33%
No 7 46.67%
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  #26  
Old 01-30-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

there is a thread you can look at for thoughts on malinche.

And it is always better to have a printed copy on hand as opposed to a online version. You would have never read the online version. To many pgs, lol. BUT I DISAGREE ON IT WAS GRAPHIC. If you think it was graphic, then you have never read history.
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  #27  
Old 02-01-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

I agree it is better to have the printed version, but trust me I would have read the online version if its required for class, perhaps not on my own, but yes for an assignment.

And It isn't so much that I haven't read history more than I have not read things like "their head rolled on the floor, or people were tripping on their own insides." I guess I have not read history by Natives themselves, but instead by the white man, and we all know who that is in favor of and that it is extremely watered down for high school students.
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  #28  
Old 02-01-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

After reading it again a few months ago (the new edition) and with the knowledge that I know now, I believe this is a good beginners book.

Even though the Broken Spears includes writings from Munoz Camargo, English version is loosely translated from the original Spanish version (vision de los vencidos) which had more graphic details, and still uses the same title even though the translation is wrong on what it means (I will explain below), the book is still good.

Anyway, I found the Nahuatl poem of "Broken Spears" and found this:

Auh ixquichi in topa michiuh
in tiquitaque in ticmahuizoque
in techocti in tetlaocolti
inic titlaihyohuique.

Auh oc in otlica omitl xaxamantoc
tzontli momoyauhtoc
calli tzontlapouhtoc
calli chichiliuhtoc

Ocuilti moyacatlamina otlica
Auh incaltech hahalacatoc in quatextli.
Auh in atl za yuhque chichiltic za yuhque tlapatlatl
ca yuh tiquique tiquia tequixquiatl.

Auh oc in atl tiquique tequixquiatl xantetl ipan tlatetzotzontli
in atlacomolli za teneneixcahuil
chimaltitlan in pieloya
in oc nen aca moteiccequiliznequi za chimaltitla.

Tiquaque in tzonpan quahuitl
in tequixquizacatl
in xantetl in cuetzpalli quimichi
teutlaquilli. Ocuilli.

Tetonetechquaque
in iquac tlepan quimontlaliaya
i ye icuicic inacayo
uncan con no
yuh tleco quiquaya.

Auh in topatiuh nochiuh
in ipatiuh nochiuh in telpochtli
in tlamacazqui in ichpochtil in piltzintli
i ye ixquich macehualli in ipatiuh mochiuh
za omatecohctli tlaolli za matlactli axaxayaca tla tlaxcalli
tequixquizacatl tlaxcalli za canpohualli topatiuh mochiuh.

In teucuitlatl in chalchihuitl
in quachtli in quetxcalli
i ye ixquich tlazotli
auctle ipa motac za tetepeui.

I bolded that part in the poem bc it says "broken bones" not "broken spears".

I verified the poem with this page:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UJ-...mantoc&f=false

Right now I'm too lazy to translate the rest of the poem especially since classical is a lot harder to translate than 20th century and afterwords. LOL.

I don't want people to read this and think it's a diss on the book, it's the contrary. Without this book, I don't think I would've discovered myself. I could say the same with the rest of the soy members. Even though we were great back then, some of us are mix now, and have Spanish names, one day we'll be great again. We're just barely starting it.
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  #29  
Old 02-01-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

Quote:
Originally Posted by _aztec_princess_ View Post
I agree it is better to have the printed version, but trust me I would have read the online version if its required for class, perhaps not on my own, but yes for an assignment.

And It isn't so much that I haven't read history more than I have not read things like "their head rolled on the floor, or people were tripping on their own insides." I guess I have not read history by Natives themselves, but instead by the white man, and we all know who that is in favor of and that it is extremely watered down for high school students.
off topic... AP, the following school year i could have been a TA in one of your classes.
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  #30  
Old 02-02-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow View Post
off topic... AP, the following school year i could have been a TA in one of your classes.
here at the University of Texas?
hehe, what are you majoring in?
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  #31  
Old 02-02-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

Yeah... there... and I was looking at a couple of programs there... actually went to visit the campus in october...

i was looking at American studies and Latin American Studies.
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In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
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  #32  
Old 02-03-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

Oh really, that's really cool?

so why is it not happening?
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  #33  
Old 02-03-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

No offense, but cuz it's Texas. Lol.
Jk. The PhD program in LAS is deteriorating and I'm not willing to take a gamble and make a commitment to a program tha wouldn't reciprocate that commitment. And he American studies program I realized I missed the deadline. Plus there's no faculty that'it would want to work with.

I am jealous of the massive Latin American history/studies library they have there. It's amazing from what I've seen online through my research. The best in the nation.
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...freedom's not a gift received from a State or a leader but a possession to be won every day by the effort of each and the union of all - Albert Camus

In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
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  #34  
Old 05-08-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

The problem I have with Broken Spears, is that a new edition turns up every few years. So what is being updated or fixed? We need the latest edition to get the correct facts?

Fishy.
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  #35  
Old 05-08-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlushPuppie View Post
The problem I have with Broken Spears, is that a new edition turns up every few years. So what is being updated or fixed? We need the latest edition to get the correct facts?

Fishy.
If you read what I wrote above, they just add stuff in the end. I have had most of the editions at one time or another & have examined them all.
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  #36  
Old 09-05-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

This is a must read! I've read several times and it's a book that I will continue to read..

I recommend "The Columbian Exchange"- Alfred W. Crosby Jr.
if you like Broken Spears then you'll like The Columbian Exchange!
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  #37  
Old 10-28-2010
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Default Re: Broken Spears

bumping
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  #38  
Old 03-25-2012
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Default Re: Broken Spears

Download an edited version:

https://www.yousendit.com/dl?phi_act...QVNOQnlFQk1UQw

Expires April 1st 2012.
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  #39  
Old 03-26-2012
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Default Re: Broken Spears

thanks(: I downloaded my free version. What is the difference between this one and broken spears?
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  #40  
Old 03-29-2012
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Default Re: Broken Spears

Other than the change of title, the editor added a prologue to discuss what s/he did. S/he removed text from Munoz Camargo, the removal of Spaniards seen as gods by natives in the entire book, replace the word Aztec and replaced it with Mexica or Ancient Nahuas. S/he added the original Nahuatl text of the "Broken Spears" poem and Zapata's first speech. Also, the book is only text with no images.
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  #41  
Old 02-07-2013
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Default Re: Broken Spears

Looks like the person who created the edited version decided to add the original images that the illustrations from Broken Spears were based on.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z6bpgp95md...0point%205.pdf
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