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View Poll Results: Have you read the book Popul Vuh?
No 12 52.17%
Yes 4 17.39%
Some 3 13.04%
Going to Read it 4 17.39%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 12-04-2007
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Default Re: The Mayan Bible - El Popol Vuh

I'm finsta read it someday
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  #52  
Old 12-05-2007
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Default Re: The Mayan Bible - El Popol Vuh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimix View Post
i think you've been forgetting to take ur medicine Tec.
Luckily for you and me, I don't take medication.

At least I don't learn about logic from a book that claims to be spiritual, which trying to learn about spirituality from a book is stupid in the first place, that has tarot cards that goes along with the book written from a fake ass.
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  #53  
Old 12-05-2007
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Default Re: The Mayan Bible - El Popol Vuh

looks like 3 people according to the poll so far finsta read this book
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  #54  
Old 12-05-2007
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Default Re: The Mayan Bible - El Popol Vuh

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl View Post
Luckily for you and me, I don't take medication.

At least I don't learn about logic from a book that claims to be spiritual, which trying to learn about spirituality from a book is stupid in the first place, that has tarot cards that goes along with the book written from a fake ass.
Oh shit.... The Indian Wars.
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  #55  
Old 12-05-2007
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Default Re: The Mayan Bible - El Popol Vuh

^
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  #56  
Old 10-06-2009
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Default Re: The Mayan Bible - El Popol Vuh

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl View Post
Luckily for you and me, I don't take medication.

At least I don't learn about logic from a book that claims to be spiritual, which trying to learn about spirituality from a book is stupid in the first place, that has tarot cards that goes along with the book written from a fake ass.
lol

I just read dennis tadlock's version and just found out that allen christensen has one out. You know anything about the differences or which one is better in regards to the original manuscript?

The one I read was pretty helpful in regards to explaining things. It seems to have a bit of an emphasis on the blood line of the quiche.

Last edited by Dissonant; 10-06-2009 at 11:09 AM.
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  #57  
Old 10-06-2009
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Default Re: The Mayan Bible - El Popol Vuh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissonant View Post
I just read dennis tadlock's version and just found out that allen christensen has one out. You know anything about the differences or which one is better in regards to the original manuscript?

The one I read was pretty helpful in regards to explaining things. It seems to have a bit of an emphasis on the blood line of the quiche.
I don't know the difference.

I think we probably read the same version bc there was many explanations on the bottom of each page.
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  #58  
Old 10-06-2009
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Default Re: The Mayan Bible - El Popol Vuh

I skimmed through the version you posted. I think you would like the version I read since he revised it and got input from native speakers on words.
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  #59  
Old 01-25-2011
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Default Re: The Mayan Bible - El Popol Vuh

Best version.

http://www.amazon.com/Popol-Vuh-Defi...5972818&sr=8-1

Loaded with awesome pictures too.
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  #60  
Old 03-18-2011
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Default Re: The Mayan Bible - El Popol Vuh

Read and/or exam the oldest copy of the Popul Vuh:

http://library.osu.edu/projects/popo...lio_i_r_en.php
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  #61  
Old 03-19-2011
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Default Re: El Popol Vuh

no but i would like to, i'm going to soon or later
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  #62  
Old 04-09-2011
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Default Re: El Popol Vuh

well i finally read it, but just the history without explanations of any autor, just some prologue, i found particulary interesting the part about the grandfathers, maybe because i already knew a large part of the history of hunahpu and ixbalanque
quite mysterious stuff, i have always approached myths from the archetypal perspective but i got the feeling there could be mixed a lot of true facts from a long ago, the way it talks about the grandfathers left me thinking a lot
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  #63  
Old 04-10-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl View Post
no. The twin existed after the creation.

Here's the book:

http://www.geocities.com/athens/acad...olvuhmain.html

It's the whole book.
Sorry, the GeoCities web site you were trying to reach is no longer available.
GeoCities has closed, but there's a lot more to explore on Yahoo!


Quote:
Originally Posted by QMX View Post
rich in metaphor, contemplate with your heart...
THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE ANCIENT WORD, here in this place called Quiche. Here we shall inscribe, we shall implant the Ancient Word, the potential and source for everything done in the citadel of Quiche, in the nation of Quiche people.
And here we shall take up the demonstration, revelation, and account of how things were put in shadow and brought to light by
the Maker, Modeler,
named Bearer, Begetter,
Hunahpu Possum, Hunahpu Coyote,
Great White Peccary, Coati,
Sovereign Plumed Serpent,
Heart of the Lake, Heart of the Sea,
plate shaper, bowl shaper, as they are called, also named, also described as
the midwife, matchmaker
named Xpiyacoc, Xmucane,
defender, protector,
twice a midwife, twice a matchmaker,
as is said in the words of Quiche. They accounted for everything—and did it, too—as enlightened beings, in enlightened words. We shall write about this now amid the preaching of God, in Christendom now. We shall bring it out because there is no longer
a place to see it, a Council Book,
a place to see 'The Light That Came from Beside the Sea,"
the account of "Our Place in the Shadows.- a place to see 'The Dawn of life,"
as it is called. There is the original book and ancient writing, but the one who reads and assesses it has a hidden identity. It takes a long perfor¬mance and account to complete the lighting of all the sky-earth:
the fourfold siding, fourfold cornering, measuring, fourfold staking
halving the cord, stretching the cord


in the sky, on the earth,
the four sides, the four corners, as it is said,
by the Maker, Modeler,
mother-father of life, of humankind,
giver of breath, giver of heart,
bearer, upbringer in the light that lasts
of those born in the light, begotten in the light;
worrier, knower of everything, whatever there is:
sky-earth, lake-sea.
THIS IS THE ACCOUNT, here it is:


Now it still ripples, now it still murmurs, ripples, it still sighs, still hums, and it is empty under the sky.
Here follow the first words, the first eloquence:
There is not yet one person, one animal, bird, fish, crab, tree, rock, hollow, canyon, meadow., forest. Only the sky alone is there; the face of
the earth is not clear. Only the sea alone is pooled under all the sky: there is nothing whatever gathered together. It is at rest; not a single thing stirs. It is held back, kept at rest under the sky.
Whatever there is that might be is simply not there: only the pooled water, only the calm sea, only it alone is pooled.
Whatever might be is simply not there: only murmurs, ripples, in the dark, in the night. Only the Maker, Modeler alone, Sovereign Plumed Serpent, the Bearers, Begetters are in the water, a glittering light. They are there, they are enclosed in quetzal feathers, in blue-green.
Thus the name, "Plumed Serpent." They are great knowers, great thinkers in their very being.
SOVEREIGN FILMED SERPENT: Here he is seated, holding a snake in his hand. On his back he wean a quetzal bird with its head behind his, its wings at the level of his
shoulders, and its tail hanging down to the ground. From the Dresden Codex.

And of course there is the sky, and there is also the Heart of Sky, This is the name of the god, as it is spoken.
And then came his word, he came here to the Sovereign Plumed Serpent, here in the blackness, in the early dawn. He spoke with the Sovereign Plumed Serpent, and they talked, then they thought, then they worried. They agreed with each other, they joined their words, their thoughts. Then it was clear, then they reached accord in the light, and then humanity was clear, when they conceived the growth, the genera¬tion of trees, of bushes, and the growth of life, of humankind, in the blackness, in the early dawn, all because of the Heart of Sky, named Hurricane. Thunderbolt Hurricane comes first, the second is Newborn Thunderbolt, and the third is Sudden Thunderbolt.
So there were three of them, as Heart of Sky, who carne to the Sover¬eign Plumed Serpent, when the dawn of life was conceived:
"How should the sowing be, and the dawning? Who is to he the provider, nurturer?"
"Let it be this way, think about it: this water should be removed, emptied out for the formation of the earth's own plate and platform, then should come the sowing, the dawning of the sky earth But there will be no high days and no bright praise for our work, our design, until the rise of the human work, the human design," they said.
And then the earth arose because of them, it Was simply their word that brought it forth. For the forming of the earth they said "Earth." It arose suddenly, just like a cloud, like a mist, now forming, unfolding.

Then the mountains were separated from the water, all at Once the great mountains came forth. By their genius alone, by their cutting edge alone they carried out the conception of the mountain-plain, whose face grew instant groves of cypress anti pine.
And the Plumed Serpent was pleased with this:
"It was good that you came, Heart of Sky, Hurricane, and Newborn Thunderbolt, Sudden Thunderbolt. Our work, our design will turn out well," they said.
And the earth was formed first, the mountain-plain. The channels of water were separated; their branches wound their ways among the mountains. The waters were divided when the great mountains appeared.
Such was the formation of the earth when it was brought forth by the Heart of Sky, Heart of Earth, as they are called, since they were the first to think of it. The sky was set apart, and the earth was set apart in the midst of the waters.
Such was their plan when they thought, when they worried about the completion of their work.
NOW THEY PLANNED THE ANIMALS OF THE MOUNTAINS, all the guardians of the forests, creatures of the mountains: the deer, birds, pumas, jaguars, serpents, rattlesnakes, fer-de-lances, guardians of the bushes.
A Bearer, Begetter speaks:
"Why this pointless humming? Why should there merely be rustling beneath the trees and bushes?"

"Indeed—they had better have guardians," the others replied soon they thought it and said it, deer and birds came forth.
And then they gave out homes to the deer and birds:
"You, the deer: sleep along the rivers, in the canyons. Be here in the meadows, in the thickets, in the forests, multiply yourselves. You will d and walk on all fours," they were told.
So then they established the nests of the birds, small and great:
"You, precious birds: your nests, your houses are in the trees, in the ashes. Multiply there, scatter there, in the branches of trees, the branches of bushes," the deer and birds were told.
en this deed had been done, all of them had received a place to p and a place to stay. So it is that the nests of the animals are on the given by the Bearer, Begetter. Now the arrangement of the deer
kid birds was complete.
ND THEN THE DEER AND BIRDS WERE TOLD by the Maker, Mod-r, Bearer, Begetter:
"Talk, speak out. Don't moan, don't cry out. Please talk, each to each, thin each kind, within each group,- they were told—the deer, birds, a, jaguar, serpent.
Name now our names, praise us. We are your mother, we are your r. Speak now:
`Hurricane,
Newborn Thunderbolt, Sudden Thunderbolt, Heart of Sky, Heart of Earth,
Maker, Modeler,
Bearer, Begetter,'
Ids, pray to us, keep our days," they were told. But it didn't turn out they spoke like people: they just squawked, they just chattered, they howled. It wasn't apparent what language they spoke; each one gave different cry. When the Maker, Modeler heard this:
“It hasn't turned out well, they haven't spoken," they said among themselves. "It hasn't turned out that our names have been named. Since are their mason and sculptor, this will not do," the Bearers and Begetters said among themselves. So they told them:
°You will simply have to be transformed. Since it hasn't turned out you haven't spoken, we have changed our word:

"What you feed on, what you eat, the places where you sleep, the places where you stay, whatever is yours will remain in the canyons, the forests. Although it turned nut that our days were not kept, nor did you pray to us, there may yet be strength in the keeper of days, the giver of praise whom we have yet to make. Just accept your service, just let your flesh be eaten.
-So be it, this must be your service,- they were told when they were instructed—the animals, small and great, On the face of the earth.
And then they wanted to test their timing again, they wanted to experi¬ment again, and they wanted to prepare for the keeping of days again. They had riot heard their speech among the animals; it did not come to fruition and it was not complete.
And so their flesh was brought low: they served, they were eaten, they were killed—the animals on the face of the earth.
AGAIN THERE COMES AN EXPERIMENT WITH THE HUMAN WORK the human design, by the Maker, Modeler, Bearer, Begetter:
"It must simply be tried again. The time for the planting and dawning is nearing. For this we must make a provider and nurturer. How else can we be invoked and remembered on the face of the earth? We have already made our first try at our work and design, but it turned out that they didn't keep our days, nor (lid they glorify us.
-So now let's try to make a giver of praise, giver of respect, provider, nurturer," they said.
So then comes the building and working with earth and mud. They made a body, but it didn't look good to them. It was just separating, just crumbling. just loosening, just softening, just disintegrating, and just dissolving. Its head wouldn't turn, either. Its face was just lopsided, its face was just twisted. It couldn't look around. It talked at first, but
Senselessly. It was quickly dissolving in the water.
"It won't last," the mason and sculptor said then. -It seems to be dwindling away, so let it just dwindle. It can't walk and it can't multiply,
so let it be merely a thought," they said.
So then they dismantled, again they brought down their work and
design. Again they talked:
-What is there for us to make that would turn out well, that would
succeed in keeping our days and praying to us?" they said. Then they
planned again:
"We'll just tell Xpiyacoc, Xmucane, Hunahpu Possum, Hunahpu Coy
ote, to try a counting of days, a counting of lots," the mason and sculptor said to themselves. Then they invoked Xpiyacoc, Xmucane.
THEN COMES THE NAMING OF THOSE WHO ARE THE MIDMOST SEERS: the "Grandmother of Day, Grandmother of Light," as the Maker, Mod¬eler called them. These are names of Xpiyacoc and Xmucane.
When Hurricane had spoken with the Sovereign Plumed Serpent, they invoked the daykeepers, diviners, the midmost seers:
"There is yet to find, yet to discover how we are to model a person, construct a person again, a provider, nurturer, so that we are called upon and we are recognized: our recompense is in words.
Midwife, matchmaker,
our grandmother, our grandfather,
Xpiyacoc, Xmucane,
let there be planting, let there be the dawning
of our invocation, our sustenance, our recognition
by the human work, the human design,
the human figure, the human form.
So be it, fulfill your names:
Hunahpu Possum, Hunahpu Coyote,
Bearer twice over, Begetter twice over,
Great Peccary, Great Coati,
lapidary, jeweler,
sawyer, carpenter,
plate shaper, bowl shaper,
incense maker, master craftsman,
Grandmother of Day, Grandmother of Light.

You have been called upon
hands over the kernels of corn, over the seeds of the coral tree,just get
it done, just let it come out whether we should carve and gouge a mouth,
a face in wood," they told the daykeepers.
then comes the borrowing,, the 'counting of days;the hand is
moved over the corn kernels, over the coral seeds, the days, the lots. Then they spoke to them, one of them a grandmother, the other a grandfather.
This is the grandfather, this is the master of the coral seeds: Xpiyacoc is his name.
And this is the grandmother, the daykeeper, diviner who stands behind others: Xmucane is her name.
And they said, as they set out the days:
"Just let it he found, just let it be discovered,
say it, our ear is listening,
may you talk, may you speak,
just find the wood for the carving and sculpting
by the builder, sculptor.
Is this to be the provider, the nurturer
when it comes to the planting, the dawning?
You corn kernels, you coral seeds,
you days, you lots:
may you succeed, may you be accurate,"
they said to the corn kernels, coral seeds, days, lots. "Have shame, you up there, Heart of Sky: attempt no deception before the mouth and face of Sovereign Plumed Serpent," they said. Then they spoke straight to the point:
-It is well that there be your manikins, woodcarvings, talking, speaking,. there on the face of the earth."
"So be it," they replied. The moment they spoke it was done: the manikins, woodcarvings, human in looks and human in speech. This was the peopling of the face of the earth:
They came into being, they multiplied, they had daughters, they had sons, these manikins, woodcarvings. But there was nothing in their hearts, and nothing in their minds, no memory of their mason and builder. They, just went and walked wherever they wanted. Now they did not remember. the Heart of Sky.
And so they fell, just an experiment and just a cutout for humankind. They were talking at first but their faces were dry. They were not yet 70developed in the legs and arms. They had no blood, no lymph. They had no sweat, no fat. Their complexions were dry, their faces were crusty. They flailed their legs and arms, their bodies were deformed.
And so they accomplished nothing before the Maker, Modeler who gave them birth, gave them heart. They became the first numerous people here on the face of the earth.
AGAIN THERE COMES A HUMILIATION, destruction, and demolition. The manikins, woodcarvings were killed when the Heart of Sky devised a flood for them. A great flood was made; it came down on the heads of the manikins, woodcarvings.
The man's body was carved from the wood of the coral tree by the Maker, Modeler. And as for the woman, the Maker, Modeler needed the hearts of bulrushes for the woman's body. They were not competent, nor did they speak before the builder and sculptor who made them and brought them forth, and so they were killed, done in by a flood:
There came a rain of resin from the sky.
There came the one named Gouger of Faces: he gouged out their eyeballs.
There came Sudden Bloodletter: he snapped off their heads. There came Crunching Jaguar: he ate their flesh.
There came Tearing jaguar: he tore them open.
They were pounded down to the bones and tendons, smashed and pulverized even to the bones. Their faces were smashed because they were incompetent before their mother and their father,
named Hurricane. The earth was blackened because of this; the black rainstorm began, rain all day and rain all night. Into their houses came the animals, small and great. Their faces were crushed by things of wood and stone. Everything spoke: their water jars, their tortilla griddles, their plates, their cooking pots, their dogs, their grinding stones, each and every, thing crushed their faces. Their dogs and turkeys told them:
"You caused us pain, you ate us, but now it is you whom we shall eat." And this is the grinding stone:
"We were undone because of you.
Every day, every day,
in the dark, in the dawn, ever, r-r-rip, r-r-rip,
r-r-rub, r-r-rub,
right in our faces, because of you.
This was the service we gave you at first, when you were still people, but today you will learn of our power. We shall pound and we shall grind your flesh," their grinding stones told them.
And this is what their dogs said, when they spoke in their turn:
"Why is it you can't seem to give us our food? We just watch and you ! just keep us down, and you throw us around. You keep a stick ready • when you eat, just so you can hit us. We don't talk, so we've received nothing from you. How could you not have known? You did know that we were wasting away there, behind you.
"So, this very day you will taste the teeth in our mouths. We shall eat you," their dogs told them, and their faces were crushed.
And then their tortilla griddles and cooking pots spoke to them in turn:
"Pain! That's all you've done for us. Our mouths are sooty, our faces are sooty. By setting us on the fire all the time, you burn us. Since We felt no pain, you by it. We shall burn you," all their cooking pots said; crushing their faces.
The stones, their hearthstones were shooting out, coining right out o the fire, going for their heads, causing them pain. Now they run for helter-skelter.
They want to climb up on the houses, but they hill as the houses,., collapse.
They want to climb the trees; they're thrown off by the trees.


They want to get inside caves, but the caves slam shut in their faces.
Such was the scattering of the human work, the human design. The people were ground down, overthrown. The months and faces of all of them were destroyed and crushed. And it used to be said that the mon¬keys in the forests today are a sign of this. They were left as a sign because wood alone was used for their flesh by the builder and sculptor.
So this is why monkey's look like people: they are a sign of a previous human work, human design—mere manikins, mere woodcarvings.
HIS WAS WHEN THERE WAS JUST A TRACE OF EARLY DAWN on the
T
face of the earth, there was no sun. But there was one who magnified himself; Seven Macaw is his name. The sky-earth was already there, but the face of the sun-moon was clouded over. Even so, it is said that his light provided a sign for the people who were flooded. He was like a person of genius in his being.
"I am great. My place is now higher than that of the human work, the human design. I am their sun and I am their light, and I am also their months.
"So be it: my light is great. I am the walkway and 1 am the foothold of the people, because my eyes are of metal. My teeth just glitter with Jewels, and turquoise as well: they stand out blue with stones like the face of the sky.
"And this nose of mine shines white into the distance like the moon.





i missed the last page, i will add it soon
Where is that from? The Popol Vuh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tri_tip View Post
Thanks, I'll go check out that thread. Honestly, your the first person I've ever read/heard that has disputed the authenticity of the 2012 phenomena. I have read several accounts and actually have done a bit of research on the calendar, which is very complex and significantly more accurate then our own. Many people understand the calendar, including I suspect some white people.

But I am certainly open to new thoughts, look forward to reading your posts.
The Mayans made predictions after 2012, why would they make predictions after 2011 if they thought that the world was going to end? That's just New Ager bullshit that shits on our ancestors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Potato View Post
Best version.

http://www.amazon.com/Popol-Vuh-Defi...5972818&sr=8-1

Loaded with awesome pictures too.
Have you bought it?

Great thread btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl View Post
I don't know. He wrote the Quiche symbols into the latin alphabet (there's someone who is arguing with me that Maya and Nahuatl were influenced by Egyptians
"OLMECS ARE OUR HERITAGE:



Let No One Steal From Us What Is The Heart of Our Heritage.



This defense of our Nican Tlaca (Indigenous) heritage is not meant to bash Africans, but to point to facts, to discourage Afrocentrics from desecrating our heritage, to stop them from making false and racist allegations as to the origins of our civilizations.



The African descent community is damaged by slavery and colonialism, by ignorance and white supremacy. We too are damaged in those very same ways as a Nican Tlaca people.



There is no need for African descent people to steal from us our pride so that they can lay claim to our pride and our lands, but that is what the racist Afrocentrics are doing when they promote the ignorant, unscientific, fabricated and delusional Olmec African origins of our people and our civilizations.



Olmec Civilization is the very heart of who we are as a people and as a civilization. We will not allow white supremacists, Afrocentric racists, or anyone to debase, distort, or to steal from us our heritage.



This defense of our people is in response to the racist attacks on our heritage during the Olmec exhibit and lectures at LACMA November 5th and 6th of 2010.



More to the point: Afrocentric racists, thinking that they are superior to us, are forcing a discussion on our rights to our heritage by claiming our Olmec civilization as an African civilization. This is like the white supremacist discussion on our rights to our lands, to our continent, based on the fraudulent Kennewick Man that has been documented to have no basis of European origins.



These two racist concepts, fabricated from wishful thinking, are pretty much like the ignorant “debate” on whether evolution is real, or the debate which is the purely racist notion that questions whether all of the races of humanity are equal in intelligence.



Ignorant, racist, or stupid ideas like these that question proven facts are usually promoted by people who have not studied the subject and who INSIST on NOT letting facts, truth, logic, or evidence stop them from presenting their “opinions” against evolution or the equality of intelligence in the human race.



The evidence is all in on evolution and on the equality of intelligence in human beings, and on the issue of our Olmec civilization having its origins here and not coming from Africa. You would think that would be the end of that. But again, facts, science, evidence, logic, and common sense don’t stop the “Olmecs were African” promoters, not anymore than the “no evolution” and “whites are superior” people.



The problem has to do with the constant publishing of “They Came Before Columbus”, a book that has been debunked, like the “Mayans were people from outer space” nonsense that Von Daniken promoted in “Chariots of the Gods” in the 60’s and 70’s. And then there was further attacks on our people’s intelligence with “Aztecs were from Atlantis”, The Ten Tribes of Israel founded all the civilizations of “the Indians” (referring to us, they still haven’t figured out that Columbus never reached India). People still insist on calling us Indians. They will NOT let facts get in the way with what they have been told in the schools of white supremacy. Indians are the people of India.



Another face of the many debasings of our heritage is the Carlos Castañeda books which were all proven a fraud. It was in Time Magazine, newspapers around the world. Castañeda made a public apology and confessed his frauds. He confessed after a book was printed showing in detail the fraud of all of the Castañeda books. You would think that that would be the end of that. The problems is that the book proving Castañeda a fraud is out of print, but the Castañeda books are still selling in the millions with people believing every lie to be the truth. New Age desecrations of our theology and culture have been the result of Castañeda’s fraud. He is now dead, but his lies live on as “New Age” because people are ignorant of the fraud he perpetrated.



With Ivan Van Sertima’s book “They Came Before Columbus” we have a similar problem. This “debate” as it is being called, has an endless list of nonsensical and pseudoscience lies and frauds behind it. But let’s just cut to the chase without taking on the lies one by one. Let’s just use logic.



If West Africans were so great to have taught us civilization, where in west or central or south Africa did they do such great things as our civilizations in B.C. times? There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in B.C. times of any civilization in those areas. For us on our continent we had Supe/Caral (3500 B.C.), Olmec (2300-1800 B.C. beginnings), Zapotec (600 B.C.), Maya (600 B.C.), Teotihuacan (100 B.C). There is ZERO evidence of anything even remotely resembling our civilizations in Africa in B.C times, there were NO CIVILIZATIONS in west-central-south Africa in B.C times.



So let’s move on to the Egyptians, who Afroncentrics claim as part of their heritage. If Egyptians did come to civilize us (for which there is zero proof) why didn’t they think West Africans were intelligent enough to bestow their Egyptian influence there in B.C. times on that part of Africa? Why would they come all the way to us when they had all these other people much closer to them? Was there nothing to interest them in the much closer West Africa, South Africa, or Central Africa? But they came all the way to us, to share with us, knowing that we were intelligent enough to start civilizations, with the startup kits they gave us (they must have brought us corn, calendar systems, writing, mathematics, concept zero, theology, and other things that didn’t exist anywhere in Africa, but they brought it to us anyway, somehow, but didn’t share it even with fellow Egyptians or with the rest of Africa).



Must be true that Egyptians didn’t think much of the intelligence of West-Central-South Africans, since not one civilization before B.C. came out of West, Central, or South Africa, and nothing related to Egyptians, not in B.C. times. This is where the ancestors of the people who are trying to steal our Olmec Heritage came from. You can not give what you do not have!



Too bad they can’t point to ANYTHING B.C. in their ancestor’s lands, that’s why they are trying to steal our lands, our heritage, our pride, our humanity, with their Van Sertima trash. They want our civilization as their claim to some civilization in B.C. times. They want to claim our land, just like the white supremacists want to claim our lands with the proven fake of Kennewick man.



You can look at Moche paintings and assume people from outer space came, by the strange figures on the vases. You can look at Nasca earth drawings in the desert and also assume outer space because you can only see those images from the sky.



The following is a list of racist thinking theories” that REFUSES to give our people credit for having created our civilizations out of our own genius. This is a list of the attacks on our intelligence, saying that we were too stupid to invent our own civilizations and to achieve what we achieved: Atlantis theory, that we are refugees from the continent of Atlantis; UFO’s theory, that people from outer space started our civilizations; Kennewick Man, that white people were here first and that this is white people's land; Phoenicians theory; Lost Tribes of Israel theory; Book of Mormon where white people came here first; and that the Chinese were also here; and of course that the Africans brought their great civilizations to us.



All of the Chicano studies professors present at this lecture refused to defend our people. The Mexica Movement was the only organization at the LACMA Olmec exhibition to defend our people and to confront this racist attack by Afrocentrics. Let study of the truth be the only truth, not fantasies or fraud or racism.

January 23, 2011
CLICK HERE for more information against this racist attack on our heritage.
http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/cu...vansertima.pdf "

http://mexica-movement.org/Olmec%20Issue.htm

OLMECS ARE NICAN TLACA HERITAGE
Confronting The Racist Afrocentric Attacks On Our Heritage

This discussion is pretty much like the ignorant “debate” on whether evolution is real or whether all of the races of humanity are equal in intelligence.

Ignorant, racist, or stupid ideas like these that question proven facts are usually promoted by people who have not studied the subject and who INSIST on NOT letting facts, truth, logic, or evidence stop them from presenting their “opinions” against evolution or the equality of intelligence in the human race.

The evidence is all in on evolution and on the equality of intelligence in human beings, and on the issue of Olmec civilization having their origins here and not coming from Africa. You would think that would be the end of that. But again, facts, science, evidence, logic, and common sense don’t stop the “Olmecs were African” promoters, not anymore than the “no evolution” and “whites are superior” people.

The problem has to do with the constant publishing of “They Came Before Columbus”, a book that has been debunked, like the “Mayans were people from outerspace” nonsense that Von Daniken promoted in “Chariots of the Gods” in the 60’s and 70’s. And then there was further attacks on our people’s intelligence with “Aztecs were from Atlantis”, The Ten Tribes of Israel founded all the civilizations of “the Indians” (referring to us, they still haven’t figured out that Columbus never reached India). People still insist on calling us Indians. They will NOT let facts get in the way with what they have been told in the schools of white supremacy.

Another face of the many debasings of our heritage is the Carlos Castañeda books which were all proven a fraud. It was in Time Magazine, newspapers around the world. Castañeda made a public apology and confessed his frauds. He confessed after a book was printed showing in detail the fraud of all of the Castañeda books. You would think that that would be the end of that. The problems is that the book proving Castañeda a fraud is out of print, but the Castañeda books are still selling in the millions with people believing every lie to be the truth. New Age desecrations of our theology and culture have been the result of Castañeda’s fraud. He is now dead, but his lies live on as “New Age” because people are ignorant of the fraud he perpetrated.

With Ivan Van Sertima’s book “They Came Before Columbus” we have a similar problem.

This “debate” as it is being called, has an endless list of nonsensical and pseudoscience lies and frauds behind it. But let’s just cut to the chase without taking on the lies one by one. Let’s just use logic.

If West Africans were so great to have taught us civilization, where in west or central or south Africa did they do such great things as our civilizations in B.C. times? There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in B.C. times of any civilization in those areas. For us on our continent we had Supe/Caral (3500 B.C.), Olmec (2300-1800 B.C. beginnings), Zapotec (600 B.C.), Maya (600 B.C.), Teotihuacan (100 B.C). There is ZERO evidence of anything even remotely resembling our civilizations in Africa in B.C times, there were NO CIVILIZATIONS in west-central-south Africa in B.C times.

So let’s move on to the Egyptians, who Afroncentrics claim as part of their heritage. If Egyptians did come to civilize us (for which there is zero proof) why didn't they think West Africans were intelligent enough to bestow their Egyptian influence there in B.C. times on that part of Africa? Why would they come all the way to us when they had all these other people much closer to them? Was there nothing to interest them in the much closer West Africa, South Africa, or Central Africa? But they came all the way to us, to share with us, knowing that we were intelligent enough to start civilizations, with the start up kits they gave us (they must have brought us corn, calendar systems, writing, mathematics, concept zero, theology, and other things that didn't exist anywhere in Africa, but they brought it to us anyway, somehow, but didn’t share it with fellow Egyptians or with the rest of Africa).

Must be true that Egyptians didn't think much of the intelligence of West-Central-South Africans, since not one civilization before B.C. came out of West, Central, or South Africa, and nothing related to Egyptians, not in B.C. times. This is where the ancestors of the people who are trying to steal our Olmec Heritage came from. You can not give what you do not have!

Too bad they can't point to ANYTHING B.C. in their ancestor's lands, that's why they are trying to steal our lands, our heritage, our pride, our humanity. They want our civilization as their claim to some civilization in B.C. times. They want to claim our land, just like the white supremacists want to claim our lands with the proven fake of Kennewick man.

You can look at Moche paintings and assume people from outer space came, by the strange figures on the vases.

You can look at Nasca earth drawings in the desert and also assume outer space because you can only see those images from the sky.

The following is a list of racist thinking “theories” that REFUSES to give our people credit for having created our civilizations out of our own genius. This is a list of the attacks on our intelligence, saying that we were too stupid to invent our own civilizations and to achieve what we achieved.

Atlantis theory, that we are refugees from the continent of Atlantis.
UFO’s theory, that people from outerspace started our civilizations.
Kennewick Man, that white people were here first and that this is their land.
Phoenicians theory, Lost Tribes of Israel theory, Book of Mormon where white people came here first, and that the Chinese and of course the Africans.

We have had to mount this defense of our people because our community was attacked by the Afrocentric racists at the recent LACMA Olmec Exhibit lectures. We of the Mexica Movement were the only people from our community who stood up and spoke against them. There were several Chicano studies professors there that evening. Not one of them stood up to speak up for our people. In fact most of them ran out of the room like chickens when this all broke out. Everyone of the Chicano studies professors refused to defend our people.

The Mexica Movement was the only organization at the LACMA Olmec exhibition lectures, individually or as an organization, to defend our people and to confront this racist attack by Afrocentrics."

http://www.mexica-movement.org/Olmec...an%20Tlaca.htm
__________________
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Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 04-11-2011 at 01:03 AM.
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  #64  
Old 04-11-2011
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Default Re: El Popol Vuh

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaguarStyle View Post
Sorry, the GeoCities web site you were trying to reach is no longer available.
GeoCities has closed, but there's a lot more to explore on Yahoo!
The oldest copy of the Popol Vuh:
http://www.soychicano.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=60

A random copy with a lot of info:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/34001103/Popol-Vuh
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  #65  
Old 04-15-2011
Sweet Potato Sweet Potato is offline
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Default Re: El Popol Vuh

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaguarStyle View Post

Have you bought it?

Great thread btw.
yep
It also has this cool glossary dictionary thing in the back with every term you'd ever want to know.

i just looked on Amazon though, and it seems another Popol Vuh version has mysteriously appeared.
i have not seen that one though so I don't know how good it is :l
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  #66  
Old 12-05-2011
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Default Re: El Popol Vuh

bump
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Old 01-08-2012
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Default Re: El Popol Vuh

I was cleaning my bookmarks and found this:

http://www.learner.org/courses/worldlit/popol-vuh/watch

It's a short documentary about the Popul Vuh.
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