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View Poll Results: How do U identify yourself?
mexican/xicano/mexica/chicano 76 64.96%
hispanic(spanish) 7 5.98%
latino 8 6.84%
indigenous/native american 16 13.68%
dont care 10 8.55%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll

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  #126  
Old 06-28-2006
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Default Re: We're Not Latinos (come on, join in)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimichipilli

Its possible that it can
"teach us to think like an indeginious person." Proving that statement is a whole other matter.
But I do believe itcan be very empowering to speak a tongue that of your ancestors.Especially a tongue that has been supressed for hundreds of years.



Well it'll keep you far from being a latino republican.


I guess thats the only thing I take exception to in regards to you MECHA types.

THe notion that the only way someone can have a social conscience, respect the environment, be aware of our history, avoid being a Latino Republican, etc. can be achieved by learning Nahuatl and and spelling your name with an X.

Maybe that works for others, but for me I dont see what one has to do with the other.
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  #127  
Old 06-28-2006
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Default Re: We're Not Latinos (come on, join in)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolArrow
I guess thats the only thing I take exception to in regards to you MECHA types.

THe notion that the only way someone can have a social conscience, respect the environment, be aware of our history, avoid being a Latino Republican, etc. can be achieved by learning Nahuatl and and spelling your name with an X.

Maybe that works for others, but for me I dont see what one has to do with the other.
It shows resistance and acknowledgement of the native roots.
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  #128  
Old 06-28-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
It shows resistance and acknowledgement of the native roots.


Oh, is that what it does?
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  #129  
Old 06-28-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolArrow
Oh, is that what it does?
That's just the beginning...
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  #130  
Old 06-29-2006
MexicaPride MexicaPride is offline
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Observer Wrote:

"But the majority of us can trace our family lineage to Europe and some to Africa. So while many of us may not be “white” (Latino) we are also not Mexica or Maya."

The majority of us? really? Wow, that is a bold statement. Just wondering, how do you figure that?

In my calculations based on official numbers of Spaniards and Africans immigrating to Mexico, Mexicans today as an ethnic group are 95% + INDIGENOUS. Keep in mind that just because your family says you are related to Hernan Cortez or come from Spain, it may not be true. In fact, it is most likely not. Mexican families are notorious for claiming unfounded Spanish roots. The problem is Mexicans are colonized to believe that Spaniards are superior and Native Mexicans are inferior. My own family said for years that my grandparents were from Spain. They had the town and time of departure down. But one of my aunts adamantly refused this and claimed we were in fact of Yaqui descent. Upon further research, we found that my aunt was right. The fable of SPanish descent had been made up by family members who wished they were white.

If you look at the numbers, there is no possible way that Mexicans can be less than 95% INDIGENOUS. Of course this does not mean that every single Mexican is 95% INDIGENOUS. This means that if you take a random sample of Mexicans, their ethnic composition will mathematically come up to this number. If you pick a single Mexican, they may very well have Spanish or AFrican descent but even then the number should be very low.

But of course there are some Mexican who have many foreign ancestors. Nobody is saying this is untrue. But there is no possible way that "most" Mexicans fall into this category. Look at the facts before you post such a bold, sweeping statement.

Hey whats up Citlalin and Tecpaocelotl. Good to see you guys again. Thanks for your continuing support. Tlazokamatli to Feliciano for your good words also. I never honestly believed that Huey and Bobby created their ten-point platform which would be the slogan of the Black Panther Party in 20 minutes as they claimed until I wrote that summary you posted. It just spilled out in a few minutes one day and it turned out to be a pretty good starting point for a lot of people. I think inspiration happens that way.

Mexica Tiahui,
Itztli

Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 06-29-2006 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Constant Post
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  #131  
Old 06-29-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicaPride
Observer Wrote:

"But the majority of us can trace our family lineage to Europe and some to Africa. So while many of us may not be “white” (Latino) we are also not Mexica or Maya."

The majority of us? really? Wow, that is a bold statement. Just wondering, how do you figure that?

In my calculations based on official numbers of Spaniards and Africans immigrating to Mexico, Mexicans today as an ethnic group are 95% + INDIGENOUS. Keep in mind that just because your family says you are related to Hernan Cortez or come from Spain, it may not be true. In fact, it is most likely not. Mexican families are notorious for claiming unfounded Spanish roots. The problem is Mexicans are colonized to believe that Spaniards are superior and Native Mexicans are inferior. My own family said for years that my grandparents were from Spain. They had the town and time of departure down. But one of my aunts adamantly refused this and claimed we were in fact of Yaqui descent. Upon further research, we found that my aunt was right. The fable of SPanish descent had been made up by family members who wished they were white.

If you look at the numbers, there is no possible way that Mexicans can be less than 95% INDIGENOUS. Of course this does not mean that every single Mexican is 95% INDIGENOUS. This means that if you take a random sample of Mexicans, their ethnic composition will mathematically come up to this number. If you pick a single Mexican, they may very well have Spanish or AFrican descent but even then the number should be very low.

But of course there are some Mexican who have many foreign ancestors. Nobody is saying this is untrue. But there is no possible way that "most" Mexicans fall into this category. Look at the facts before you post such a bold, sweeping statement.

Hey whats up Citlalin and Tecpaocelotl. Good to see you guys again. Thanks for your continuing support. Tlazokamatli to Feliciano for your good words also. I never honestly believed that Huey and Bobby created their ten-point platform which would be the slogan of the Black Panther Party in 20 minutes as they claimed until I wrote that summary you posted. It just spilled out in a few minutes one day and it turned out to be a pretty good starting point for a lot of people. I think inspiration happens that way.

Mexica Tiahui,
Itztli
Let me introduced you to Itztli, owner of Mexicauprising.net

Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicaPride
In my calculations based on official numbers of Spaniards and Africans immigrating to Mexico, Mexicans today as an ethnic group are 95% + INDIGENOUS. Keep in mind that just because your family says you are related to Hernan Cortez or come from Spain, it may not be true. In fact, it is most likely not. Mexican families are notorious for claiming unfounded Spanish roots. The problem is Mexicans are colonized to believe that Spaniards are superior and Native Mexicans are inferior. My own family said for years that my grandparents were from Spain. They had the town and time of departure down. But one of my aunts adamantly refused this and claimed we were in fact of Yaqui descent. Upon further research, we found that my aunt was right. The fable of SPanish descent had been made up by family members who wished they were white.
I will agree with you on this, but will extend it to they will claim anything that isn't native. For example, I have this uncle whose my mom's brother who claims we're Spanish (my grandma) and Arab (grandpa). Anyway, remember my grandpa saying he was native and tried to prove it. I knew he was lying. When were Arabs in New Mexico? Seem a bit fishy, you know? Especially since the last names on that side all have origin there. Luckily, my mom has the document which stated that my grandpa was 'indigena pura'. Funny part is also on my mom's birth certificate it says 'indigena mezclada con blanca'. My uncle is still in denial. LOL.

Anyway, what is more sader to this story is my grandma. She always talks bad about native this and native that and I always feel like snapping back and saying 'if natives were that bad, why did you marry my grandpa?' Always hold that back.
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  #132  
Old 06-29-2006
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Default Re: We're Not Latinos (come on, join in)

60% mestizo, 30% native.
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  #133  
Old 06-29-2006
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whatever Mexico is, it surely isn't what the Mexican government or C.I.A. says it is. Sometimes common sense is more reliable than census reports.

How can one calculate race when race does not exist anyhow?
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  #134  
Old 06-29-2006
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Both feliciano and Tecpa are wrong on the stats above.

I have done extensive research on the indigenous ancestry of Mexico and throughout this hemisphere.

SEE: Native Genetics Research
http://nahuatl.info/research/genetics.htm

Mexico ranges from 100% - 88% indigenous from the south up to the north. Even extreme northern regions like Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua (next to El Paso, TX) show 88% indigenous mtDNA in both males and females (the mtDNA lineages are passed down from mother to daughters and sons).

Granted, there has not been significant work in the area of Y-chromosome studies. But one study I cite in my research on random groups of males throughout the entire Western Hemisphere shows that 54% of all males have the indigenous Y-chromsome marker (IG-haplotype). This is substantial.

Mexico in fact is nearly 100% indigenous in the south and 88% indigenous in the north. Today, very few indigenous people and Spanish continue to "mix" largely due to the apartheid-style colonial lifestyle that separates the two cultural groups. (Whites are known for sticking to their own in gated communities--not always, but mostly)

In early colonial history, Spanish men were only able to get their "genes" into the indigenous gene pool mostly by rape--much like white slave masters got their genes into the Afrikan slave population in the U.S. Today, ALL Afrikan Americans are part Europeans because of rape during the slave era.

Anyone who travels through Mexico, knows damn well it is an indigenous brown nation--with a white elite popultion of only about 10%.

It really is a "sea" of brown people! In fact, in some regions of Mexico, some indigenous children have never seen an Anglo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicaPride
Hey whats up Citlalin and Tecpaocelotl. Good to see you guys again. Thanks for your continuing support. Tlazokamatli to Feliciano for your good words also. I never honestly believed that Huey and Bobby created their ten-point platform which would be the slogan of the Black Panther Party in 20 minutes as they claimed until I wrote that summary you posted. It just spilled out in a few minutes one day and it turned out to be a pretty good starting point for a lot of people. I think inspiration happens that way.

Mexica Tiahui,
Itztli
Mexica Tiahui Itztli! That was quite an inspirational summary! Like I said, it's been all over the net from what I've seen. I would like to see a nice formatted version.

I haven't been keeping up at the messageboards, but hope that is going to change soon!

Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 06-29-2006 at 09:35 PM.
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  #135  
Old 06-29-2006
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Interesting.
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  #136  
Old 06-29-2006
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I Infer that all of your calculations are wrong...off, way off..now I have the REAL percentage....but I refuse to tell them to ya'll...lol...
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  #137  
Old 07-06-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolArrow
Oh, is that what it does?
it's a way that:

1. one came be obsessed with race and ethno-nationalism and feel ok with it.
2. can feel superior to other hispanic ethnicities (cubans, puerto ricans, etc.)
3. can blame 500 year old dead people for their current problems
4. you can call those that consider themselves latino/hispanic/chicano "sellouts".

in reality it does nothing. it does nothing to dance in a circle and pray to octetlquitl or the sun god or whoever, as cool as it looks in public. it does nothing to read a calendar that is almost entirely based in mythology, as "knowledgeable" as it seems.

i personally am all for recognizing your racial heritage, but when it veers into radical "movements" (black panthers, aryan movement), i will always rail against it. calling europeans and whites "a cancer", and protesting racism by using racism ("racist" whites go home).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicaPride
Observer Wrote:

"But the majority of us can trace our family lineage to Europe and some to Africa. So while many of us may not be “white” (Latino) we are also not Mexica or Maya."

The majority of us? really? Wow, that is a bold statement. Just wondering, how do you figure that?

In my calculations based on official numbers of Spaniards and Africans immigrating to Mexico, Mexicans today as an ethnic group are 95% + INDIGENOUS. Keep in mind that just because your family says you are related to Hernan Cortez or come from Spain, it may not be true. In fact, it is most likely not. Mexican families are notorious for claiming unfounded Spanish roots. The problem is Mexicans are colonized to believe that Spaniards are superior and Native Mexicans are inferior. My own family said for years that my grandparents were from Spain. They had the town and time of departure down. But one of my aunts adamantly refused this and claimed we were in fact of Yaqui descent. Upon further research, we found that my aunt was right. The fable of SPanish descent had been made up by family members who wished they were white.

If you look at the numbers, there is no possible way that Mexicans can be less than 95% INDIGENOUS. Of course this does not mean that every single Mexican is 95% INDIGENOUS. This means that if you take a random sample of Mexicans, their ethnic composition will mathematically come up to this number. If you pick a single Mexican, they may very well have Spanish or AFrican descent but even then the number should be very low.

But of course there are some Mexican who have many foreign ancestors. Nobody is saying this is untrue. But there is no possible way that "most" Mexicans fall into this category. Look at the facts before you post such a bold, sweeping statement.

Hey whats up Citlalin and Tecpaocelotl. Good to see you guys again. Thanks for your continuing support. Tlazokamatli to Feliciano for your good words also. I never honestly believed that Huey and Bobby created their ten-point platform which would be the slogan of the Black Panther Party in 20 minutes as they claimed until I wrote that summary you posted. It just spilled out in a few minutes one day and it turned out to be a pretty good starting point for a lot of people. I think inspiration happens that way.

Mexica Tiahui,
Itztli
hahaha. 95% indigenous? the number of full-blooded "nican tlaca" is no more than 20% in mexico. there are very, very few actual mexicans (that is, spanish and indigenous) of yaqui descent. the yaquis lived in the sonoran desert, and generally lived seperate from other tribes, like the mayo and opata, who were much more "conquered" tribes of mexico. i'll go on a limb here and bet you could never even prove you're really yaqui. many, if not most, of the mexicans now living near the border migrated there in recent history, who are of various mixtec/aztec descent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
That's just the beginning...
yea, i bet.

so next will be dna verification to root out the fakes. than removal of the "cancer" and "racist" whites.

Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 07-06-2006 at 09:32 PM.
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  #138  
Old 07-06-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashyourface86
yea, i bet.

so next will be dna verification to root out the fakes. than removal of the "cancer" and "racist" whites.
The only one who is stating it is you, not me.
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  #139  
Old 07-06-2006
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Quote:
it's a way that:

1. one came be obsessed with race and ethno-nationalism and feel ok with it.
2. can feel superior to other hispanic ethnicities (cubans, puerto ricans, etc.)
3. can blame 500 year old dead people for their current problems
4. you can call those that consider themselves latino/hispanic/chicano "sellouts"
Interesting conclusions.
A few points to make here:
  • Hispanic in its general defintion refers to that which is of Spain.Thus it becomes a blatant misnomer for the collective people known as Mexicans.
  • Not only do many Mexicas lambast 500 yr old dead guys, they also hold their descendants of like mind and ideolgy with the same contempt
It seems you are generalizing that all Mexicas hold the same ideologies as some particular orgs you might have come across.



Quote:
in reality it does nothing. it does nothing to dance in a circle and pray to octetlquitl or the sun god or whoever, as cool as it looks in public.
Not moreso than it does to speak on matters of which you have no experience.

Quote:
it does nothing to read a calendar that is almost entirely based in mythology, as "knowledgeable" as it seems.

Exactly. Its a wonder why people even use the Gregorian Calendar
.




Quote:
i personally am all for recognizing your racial heritage, but when it veers into radical "movements" (black panthers, aryan movement), i will always rail against it. calling europeans and whites "a cancer", and protesting racism by using racism ("racist" whites go home).
So would you say that some native peoples anger and desire to displace whites from plunderng their land has no merit?
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  #140  
Old 07-07-2006
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Mmm.. I have not read the whole thread yet, but i noticed one thing.. Hey I dont want to bother someone!!! - but.. everytime when i read about 'we're not latino or spanish, thats just how the english or 'anglos' call us'. Hmmm.. im sure you mean the white population of the u.s. and in this point you're right. But.. i bet they would say something very similar when you call them 'english'.
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  #141  
Old 07-07-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feliciano
i tell you this, homie, wanting to learn goes make you enlighten. question is, how far you willing to go and will you accept it when the truth hits you.
Ah....for some truth is relative. What may be true may not be true to others...keep that in mind.



What am I? This made me think, really. I don't know what I am. I've always considered myself Chicana, everyone in my immediate family does too. This is how my family is setup.

My Mom's Side: Lived in modern day Texas before the US took it. I'm talking about Grandparents, Great Grandparents, Great-Great Grandparents and so on. Since Texas is in the US and not Mexico now, what are they?

My Dad's Side: Everyone from my dad's side is from Monterrey. We still have family there but as far as I've ever heard them tracing back, thats where they've always been, or atleast they can remember.

I want to know what I would be considered, the only problem is I can't just call up either side of the family. My maternal grandmother only knows Texas, not what is Mexico now. I don't have ties to my dad's side anymore besides the aunts and uncles I have.


This has really made me think. I've gone over most of the threads here on Soy that pertain to this but I don't see anything that can help me distinguish what I am. Seen we have many educated persons on here I was wondering if you could give me a little more insight.
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Last edited by Islas; 07-07-2006 at 11:04 AM.
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  #142  
Old 07-08-2006
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I consider myself to be a person of brown/red colored skin 5th generation born and raised in the United States, my grandchildren are the 7th generation.

I am an American. Truly a child of this land. It was because governments drew a line and my ancesters happened to settle on the north side of the line did we get citizenship.

But, my blood still runs red as yours does.

I think your traditions and the language that you speak define who and what you are.
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  #143  
Old 07-09-2006
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Well, it seems my suggestion that the majority of us “Latinos” can trace our family heritage back to Europe has caused some hyper activity among some of those whom I consider to be “hyper ingenious” in their outlook in regards to race and Mexicans/Chicanos. It is ironic how a claim, which can be supported by facts both scholarly and by anecdotal observations, can bring about frenetic and (seemingly) emotional reactions that aren’t supported by anything other claimed research of one supposed study (that isn’t offered for anyone else’s review and rebut) and percentages of indigenous populations that are seemingly manufactured out of thin air.

The following is in the hopes of promoting honest and candid dialogue. It is not my intention to be rude or vitriolic, or pleasant or nice; it is my intent to be honest, straight-forward and frank. And if my blunt honesty is mistaken for adversarial rudeness it is likely because the offended is an unwavering bigot who leaves no room for open discussion on this topic.

”I [will] tell you this, homie, wanting to learn goes [to] mak[ing] you enlighten[ed]. [The] question is: How far [are] you willing to go, and will you accept it when the truth hits you?”

-feliciano

feliciano makes an excellent point: We should pursue the pathway of knowledge and truth, even if that path leads us in a direction we would rather not go, and to a conclusion we would prefer not see.

Contradictive Conclusions

Both citilain MexicaPride seem to have lost all objectivity in the discussion over just how many “Latinos” can honestly trace at least some their family linage to Europe; MexicaPride admonishes me for making a “bold [and] sweeping statement” and suggests that I consult “the facts” before doing so again. Well I have, and I stand by the statement that: the majority of us so-called Latinos can trace our family heritage to Europe.

I did, however, notice that MexicaPride's statistics (as well as citilian) were unaccompanied by any sources. They both claimto have done research that proves that certain regions of Mexico are populated anywhere from 88% to 100% indigenous peoples. MexicaPride claims that Mexicans are ethnically “95% indigenous.” While citilian claims that southern Mexico is “nearly 100% indigenous” and northern Mexico is “88% indigenous,” and notes that whites make up “about 10%” of Mexico’s population. There are some interesting contradictions and omissions between and within both MexicaPride's and citilian’s claims.

So, if Mexico is “95% + INDIGENOUS,” as MexicaPride claims then citilian’s claim that whites make up 10% is grossly inaccurate- either MexicaPride numbers are untrue or citlian is nearly an astonishing 50% off in her calculations of Mexico’s white population.

Furthermore, the link citilian supplied is not to a study that lends support to her claims, but rather to another site (that she apparently authored) that offers no additional support of her claims that "Mexico in fact is nearly 100% indigenous in the south and 88% indigenous in the north." I found no mention of Mexico's contemporary racial ethnic demographic breakdown.

The Omitted

Although MexicaPride and citilian disagree on the racial census of Mexico, they both seem to arrive at a similar conclusion: there are basically only two populations inhabiting modern-day Mexico: whites and “indigenous” people. There is no mention of the people that almost everyone else knows to exist in Mexico, the somewhat discretionary racial category: mestizo (Amerindian & Spanish). Why would they omit that vital component to Mexico’s racial equation?

A plausible answer surfaces when we consider that mestizos are the products
(the offspring) of miscegenation (sexual relations) between Amerindians and Europeans, and that they roughly make up of 60% of Mexico’s population. What does that mean? Well, once we combine mestizos with criollos (white Mexicans) about 70% of Mexicans have, at least, some European linage. And thus my claim that “the majority of us can trace our family lineage to Europe” is accurate, because 70% is a clear majority. As for the “facts” here are some links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Mexico:


“ As an ethnic group, mestizos constitute officially 65-75% of Mexico's population. Other international organizations prefer a lower percentage, close to 60%, that allows for a categorization of 30% of predominantly Amerindians….Unmixed Native Amerindian peoples make up the second-largest group; official statistics put them at 12%...Close to 10% of the population…is of white European descent.”


http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki...hics_of_Mexico:

Most Mexicans are Mestizo (mixed Amerindian and European), and constitute around 60% of today's population. Estimates of unmixed Amerindian peoples in Mexico vary from a very modest 10% to a more liberal and more accurate 30% of the population…About 9% of the population...is of unmixed white European descent.”

http://www.isteve.com/ImportingMexicanInequality.htm:

The CIA Factbook claims that Mexico's 100 million people are 9% white, 60% mestizo, 30% Indian, and 1% other. These are fairly arbitrary estimates. It could be that some of the whites and Indians are a little bit mixed, but not enough to show. Since Spaniards and Indians tend to share dark hair and dark eyes, and aren't all that far apart in skin color, without DNA tests it's hard tell whether or not people who look pure Spanish or Indian aren't really slightly mixed.

Of course, those mestizos also have so-called indigenous family lineage. And I would agree that Mexico is, as citilian said, “is a ‘sea’ of brown people.” However, our skin color doesn’t (no matter how much some wish it wasn't so) alter the fact that the majority of us have genetic ties to Europeans. This, of course, doesn’t mean the majority of us are white, but there can be no honest denial that most of us have European lineage.
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I do have a question that I would like both citilian and MixcaPride (and anyone else who would like to) answer: Do you conclude that ancestors of the Mexica and other pre-Columbian Mesoamericans came over via Bering Strait ? In short, do you subscribe to the Bering Strait Theory?
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  #144  
Old 07-09-2006
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Great fuckin post feliciano! I love the way everyone disagrees on the stats. Depends what source you look up. Stats are misleading. Oh and I am Chicano!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MexicaPride
whatever Mexico is, it surely isn't what the Mexican government or C.I.A. says it is. Sometimes common sense is more reliable than census reports.

How can one calculate race when race does not exist anyhow?
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 07-10-2006 at 12:05 AM.
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  #145  
Old 07-09-2006
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Stats are misleading.

-Demon1

Oh so very true!!! Especially when they indicate the opposite of one special interest believes.

*end sarcasm*

However, stats become very reliable once stats are found that support the belief of the very same special interest group. It’s strange how that happens, huh? It’s almost as if honesty and objectivity have been replaced by emotional and irrational religious like belief.

Race doesn't exist, but ethnicity does? Interesting; it world be helpful if MexciaPride would explain the difference between race and ethnicity and why there is no such thing as “race.”
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Old 07-20-2006
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"* Hispanic in its general defintion refers to that which is of Spain.Thus it becomes a blatant misnomer for the collective people known as Mexicans."

no one has to call themselves hispanic.

"* Not only do many Mexicas lambast 500 yr old dead guys, they also hold their descendants of like mind and ideolgy with the same contempt."

really? i don't hear much of huitzilíhuitl's bad policies for anahuac being discussed, or how maybe moctezuma lied about building more water reserves, or his failures on tort reform, hahaha.

sorry, but i really don't take the actions of 500 year old dead people that personal.

"It seems you are generalizing that all Mexicas hold the same ideologies as some particular orgs you might have come across."

no. i get that "generalization" when i see countless nu-"indigenous" types use links and information from websites like "mexica-uprising", "mexica-movement", and so forth.

"Not moreso than it does to speak on matters of which you have no experience."

matters on which i have no experience?.... and which of those would you be referring to?

"Exactly. Its a wonder why people even use the Gregorian Calendar."

i'll bet the calendar used in common practice here in modern time is more accurate than any past mesoamerican calendar. and if there are any unusual real-life accuracies found within any ancient civilization, they can easily be adapted to today's world without having to "be indigenous".

"So would you say that some native peoples anger and desire to displace whites from plunderng their land has no merit?"

you're right, how stupid of me. reverse racial-nationalism is the only logical response to any type of alleged racial-nationalism.
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  #147  
Old 07-20-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
This, of course, doesn’t mean the majority of us are white, but there can be no honest denial that most of us have European lineage.

I agree.


I don't know why the MECHA types have such an issue with this.
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  #148  
Old 07-20-2006
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Quote:
no one has to call themselves hispanic.

Um.. I know. Thats one of the reasons i said that.

Quote:
really? i don't hear much of huitzilíhuitl's bad policies for anahuac being discussed, or how maybe moctezuma lied about building more water reserves, or his failures on tort reform, hahaha.
Um..maybe cause they didnt destroy and plunder the land we now know as Mexico.


Quote:
matters on which i have no experience?.... and which of those would you be referring to?

How about going back and looking at your comment I was adressing when I made that statement.

Quote:
i'll bet the calendar used in common practice here in modern time is more accurate than any past mesoamerican calendar.
More accurate how?By the solar year being recorded with a tenths of a second difference from contemporary astronomer's instruments?.
oh yea,13 moons in a solar revolution but only 12 months in a year?? yea buddy ,makes a lotta sense.


Quote:
and if there are any unusual real-life accuracies found within any ancient civilization, they can easily be adapted to today's world without having to "be indigenous".

??

Quote:
you're right, how stupid of me. reverse racial-nationalism is the only logical response to any type of alleged racial-nationalism.


Nooone is speaking about "alleged racial nationalism." However, we are speaking about the well known missapropriation of indigenous land.
so just answer the question..
Would you acknowledge that some native peoples anger and desire to displace whites from plunderng their land has no merit whatsoever?
its really not a hard question.
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  #149  
Old 07-20-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer This, of course, doesn’t mean the majority of us are white, but there can be no honest denial that most of us have European lineage.




I agree.


I don't know why the MECHA types have such an issue with this.
It asinine to assume all us Mecha types have an issue with this.
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  #150  
Old 07-21-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer
Well I have, and I stand by the statement that: the majority of us so-called Latinos can trace our family heritage to Europe.
I believe we can acknowledge European factors in our genetic makeup but I really doubt the majority of Mexicans can actually trace heritage back to Europe.
I know of some that say they can, albeit Ive never pressed them for proof. Main reason for not pressing them about the issue was that most that claimed such were browner in complexion than myself. I just thought it might have been a bad case of self hate.

Of course genetics only account for so much, culture is another factor.

I think Im gonna start asking other Mexicans about their "european heritage" at random to see what answers I get. I take the bus alot here in LA so there's plenty of Mexikans to ask.

I shall report my findings.

mousenote:
its interesting the resistance some brown people exert in order to not be identified as native/indigenous but have no issue with using a term that basically refers to one as European.
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