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  #51  
Old 06-17-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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Originally Posted by Lamberto Quintero View Post
I do "buy into the crap" that says that people need to know where they come from in order to truly move forward and progress. When there is an entire people confused about who they are, a system can exploit this and manipulate it to their advantage, creating a hierarchy in the labor force and keeping us at the bottom.

And gangs don't come from bad parenting, are you kidding? I know MANY good parents who work hard every single day of their life in order to help their children succeed, and their children end up joining gangs anyways. Why is that? It has NOTHING to do with the parenting on a huge scale, maybe on specific situations it has to do with parenting, but overall, it has to do with a system that pits us against each other and that takes advantage of our lack of self identity and awareness of our history.
lol... man I truly pity someone who can't move forward for those reasons! I thought my people were smarter than that, well I hope they are. I have yet to meet one that isn't, hopefully I never do.

The gang dealings that I had, all I ever seen were shitty parents that didn't give a damn about their kids. They let them run around and do as they wished then guess what, the boys were in gangs and the girls turned out prego! No one to blame but themselves! None of them came to a complete stop and asked "Where am I from" "What is my identity" "I cannot continue on in life"....
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"It's embarrassing when Europeans come over here, they all speak English, they speak French, they speak German," he had said. "And then we go over to Europe and all's we'se can say is 'merci beaucoup.'"
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Originally Posted by Quimiizzzhhhiiippiiilllliiii
thanks, but i have no car and no money. i think it's just her time. she's already 10 yrs old so, she is an old lady.
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  #52  
Old 06-17-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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lol... man I truly pity someone who can't move forward for those reasons! I thought my people were smarter than that, well I hope they are. I have yet to meet one that isn't, hopefully I never do.

The gang dealings that I had, all I ever seen were shitty parents that didn't give a damn about their kids. They let them run around and do as they wished then guess what, the boys were in gangs and the girls turned out prego! No one to blame but themselves! None of them came to a complete stop and asked "Where am I from" "What is my identity" "I cannot continue on in life"....
Those things don't hold them back like you're thinking, it's all subconsciously man. Most people won't realize that the reason they aren't happy and can't seem to do things right is because of a lack of confidence in themselves that goes back to when they were little and how they were treated, talked about, and how they learned to look at themselves. Things like television, movies, newspapers, video games, all these things subconsciously paint a picture inside the minds of Americans on how a person is supposed to be and how to be successful. The way to do it is to completely adopt American core values and to completely lose traditions and culture that have been with the family forever. You're doing a good job yourself, but most people have trouble letting go and "selling" out...
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  #53  
Old 06-17-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl View Post
Statistics show that kids who know more than one language are more successful in life.
Great so lets remove bilingual education here, let them learn English since they already know spanish.

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It's all politics on why they want to remove it.
Really how so?

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What is so wrong with bilingual education. I think with this, it will bring back national pride and a true identity to Mexico.
You think so? I don't see how.

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Exactly, if you don't like it, then put your kids in private school. That's what most creationist do.
Im going to give it my best shot.

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I personally think they were taught wrong or confused bc they would learn English at school and hear Spanish at home. Spanish isn't taught properly at home. Yes, they understand it, but chances are they don't know how to properly create sentences.
Wrong! Spanish is best taught by those who grew up speaking it, not by some white (or chicano) teacher who learned it in college! Well unless the parents at home are ignorant!

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Originally Posted by Lamberto Quintero View Post
Those things don't hold them back like you're thinking, it's all subconsciously man. Most people won't realize that the reason they aren't happy and can't seem to do things right is because of a lack of confidence in themselves that goes back to when they were little and how they were treated, talked about, and how they learned to look at themselves. Things like television, movies, newspapers, video games, all these things subconsciously paint a picture inside the minds of Americans on how a person is supposed to be and how to be successful. The way to do it is to completely adopt American core values and to completely lose traditions and culture that have been with the family forever. You're doing a good job yourself, but most people have trouble letting go and "selling" out...
Man you should watch George Lopez one day! He talks about people with your mentality. lol
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"It's embarrassing when Europeans come over here, they all speak English, they speak French, they speak German," he had said. "And then we go over to Europe and all's we'se can say is 'merci beaucoup.'"
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Originally Posted by Quimiizzzhhhiiippiiilllliiii
thanks, but i have no car and no money. i think it's just her time. she's already 10 yrs old so, she is an old lady.
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  #54  
Old 06-17-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

^^ I have watched that show before, that guy is funny! And you should try to think outside of the box for once, maybe something can penetrate those blue, red and white walls blocking off intelligent thoughts from going into your brain!
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  #55  
Old 06-17-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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^^ I have watched that show before, that guy is funny! And you should try to think outside of the box for once, maybe something can penetrate those blue, red and white walls blocking off intelligent thoughts from going into your brain!
lol... why do you always have to result to insults? seriously?
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"It's embarrassing when Europeans come over here, they all speak English, they speak French, they speak German," he had said. "And then we go over to Europe and all's we'se can say is 'merci beaucoup.'"
Borock Hussien Obama Jr.

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Originally Posted by Quimiizzzhhhiiippiiilllliiii
thanks, but i have no car and no money. i think it's just her time. she's already 10 yrs old so, she is an old lady.
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  #56  
Old 06-17-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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lol... why do you always have to result to insults? seriously?
But that was no insult! It was a clever metaphor! LOL
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  #57  
Old 06-17-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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Originally Posted by Lamberto Quintero View Post
But that was no insult! It was a clever metaphor! LOL
mamon!
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"It's embarrassing when Europeans come over here, they all speak English, they speak French, they speak German," he had said. "And then we go over to Europe and all's we'se can say is 'merci beaucoup.'"
Borock Hussien Obama Jr.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimiizzzhhhiiippiiilllliiii
thanks, but i have no car and no money. i think it's just her time. she's already 10 yrs old so, she is an old lady.
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  #58  
Old 06-17-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

That's good that Mexico is trying to preserve their indigenous languages. I think its awesome when I hear people talk Nahuatl.

I would also like to learn it. Does anybody know of any good books?
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  #59  
Old 06-18-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

^ I hear CSUN has a Nahuatl class taught by a Chicano professor who is fluent in 5 other languages or more so you might want to check out the Chicano Studies section at the CSUN student bookstore and buy the books required for his Nahuatl class
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  #60  
Old 06-18-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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I would also like to learn it. Does anybody know of any good books?
fuck a CSUN course.
<b>

http://www.quimixipilli.com/nahuatl/dictionary.pdf

http://www.quimixipilli.com/nahuatl/nahuatl_grammar.pdf

http://www.quimixipilli.com/nahuatl/workbook.pdf

http://www.quimixipilli.com/nahuatl/...l_lessons1.pdf


you can download all of these..just click file-save after its done loading

Last edited by QMX; 06-18-2008 at 12:40 AM.
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  #61  
Old 06-18-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

^ why do you say that?
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  #62  
Old 06-18-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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Originally Posted by PARALYZN View Post
That's good that Mexico is trying to preserve their indigenous languages. I think its awesome when I hear people talk Nahuatl.

I would also like to learn it. Does anybody know of any good books?
A great book is the one that Quimixipilli posted which is La Voz de Tenochtitlan. It was written by a Native Nahuatl speaker called David Vazquez. He is also one of many people who are pushing for a bilingual education in Mexican School System.

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If you look on page 36 (35 on the pdf), you see the Nahuatl alphabet that he built which took him 30 years to make.

Quimi,

If you're reading this. I noticed you made the text copy and past and I was wondering if you can edit it since there are a few errors in that document. Not from the scanning, but in the book itself. I have written the correct stuff. I just got to find the book.
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Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 06-18-2008 at 11:25 AM.
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  #63  
Old 06-18-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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^ why do you say that?
Just being vain glorious. I obviously don't completely mean it. But sometimes I run into people that have taken Nahuatl at CSUN and they sometimes a bit condescending and often (IMO) negate the metaphorical and poetical possibilities of the words. They often are very rigid and literal with it. So there is a lil genuinity to my comment but very little.
Why are you a CSUNer?
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  #64  
Old 06-18-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

^ interesting, I wonder why some of those who have studied Nahuatl are condescending and not open to other interpretations and metaphorical meanings of Nahuatl words. No i'm not a CSUner
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  #65  
Old 06-19-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

well, they are not outright condescending but IMO some do have that "i learned in college so i know" tone. Perhaps it's just a lil of that university arrogance that seems to plague many university educated chicanos
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  #66  
Old 06-19-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

^ that may be so and at least they learned some Nahuatl, I'm sure some of them university Chicanos are open to learn other interpretations of Nahuatl especially the one's who are Danzantes
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  #67  
Old 06-19-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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Then hopefully it gets knocked down..... Im tired of this bilingual crap that only confuses the kids.
Awww. Do you get confused, Pelotero?

I know many children who easily go from Spanish to English and vice-versa with no problem at all. It's an advantage to know more than one language. It's also important to know where you come from and carry on the language and traditions of your people.
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Old 06-19-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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^ that may be so and at least they learned some Nahuatl, I'm sure some of them university Chicanos are open to learn other interpretations of Nahuatl especially the one's who are Danzantes

yea, maybe. its just that a lot of them are Mechas. Youll catch Mecha hosting a pow wow but you wont find them at the ceremonies or practicing the traditions. IMO, to really learn the depth of any native language you have to be involved in the traditions and understand the indigenous sense of reality
.
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Old 06-19-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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yea, maybe. its just that a lot of them are Mechas. Youll catch Mecha hosting a pow wow but you wont find them at the ceremonies or practicing the traditions. IMO, to really learn the depth of any native language you have to be involved in the traditions and understand the indigenous sense of reality
.
I agree. Not all Chicanos are ready and willing to decolonize fully and embrace their indigenous identities even if they are in MEChA....500 years of colonialism has done this to us. Its not easy to reject the centuries of colonialism, catholicism, Mexicanization and Americanization that colonized Indians have been though but fortunately there are Chicanos who have taken steps towards decolonization, which is better than no Chicanos ever going through the process of decolonizing themselves.

So like the elders say, we have to be patient, open and ready to welcome Chicanos that want to and are ready to take the next step on the next stepping stone towards knowledge of self. Very few Chicanos have had the opportunity to go to temezcales, Lakota ceremonies, etc. but these are experiences they definitely should have to begin to grasp indigenous self-awareness.
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  #70  
Old 06-27-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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  #71  
Old 06-27-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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I agree. Not all Chicanos are ready and willing to decolonize fully and embrace their indigenous identities even if they are in MEChA....
MeCHa has nothing to do with decolonization what they are about is being validated(Degree) by society so they can own a house, the benz and the title at work.
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  #72  
Old 06-28-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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MeCHa has nothing to do with decolonization what they are about is being validated(Degree) by society so they can own a house, the benz and the title at work.
ain't nothin wrong with that as long it doesn't exclude being decolonized, raising their children to be Red and Proud, and rejecting the White Man's idea of White Supremacy and the White Man's Bullshit Christianity
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  #73  
Old 06-28-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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They're not really going to USE the lanuage, it's just going to be for entertaiment purposes, just because, just to KEEP a custom alive, (where they should focus in keeping IMPORTANT customs alive)
When there are plenty of villages, ect that still use their original language THEY ARE GOING TO USE IT. Entertainment? The same could be said about your precious spanish. Ones history is the custom that should be in focus and kept alive. Teaching and learning only things that were learned and brought after the conquest has done nothing to help the people or encourage the people.

I think a good examples of this is in the book mexico Profundo, i think. That or maybe i am thinking of Labyrth of Solitude. Were it talks about the reason Mexicans go on with celebrations like clock work, even when they can not afford it is because it is a break from their misery. Something like that.
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  #74  
Old 06-30-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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Originally Posted by Nelio View Post
When there are plenty of villages, ect that still use their original language THEY ARE GOING TO USE IT. Entertainment? The same could be said about your precious spanish. Ones history is the custom that should be in focus and kept alive. Teaching and learning only things that were learned and brought after the conquest has done nothing to help the people or encourage the people.

I think a good examples of this is in the book mexico Profundo, i think. That or maybe i am thinking of Labyrth of Solitude. Were it talks about the reason Mexicans go on with celebrations like clock work, even when they can not afford it is because it is a break from their misery. Something like that.
I agree with Nelio. Many communities use it and the more we learn of it, the more we'll be using it. I want Mexico to be like Japan, they speak one language for business and they speak their own language and with pride.

Also, the book that Nelio is talking about is from Octavio Paz which coincidently, I posted that part of the book a while back here so you can fully understand what he means:

http://www.soychicano.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19684
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  #75  
Old 07-01-2008
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Default Re: Mexico linguists want Native languages in schools

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Just being vain glorious. I obviously don't completely mean it. But sometimes I run into people that have taken Nahuatl at CSUN and they sometimes a bit condescending and often (IMO) negate the metaphorical and poetical possibilities of the words. They often are very rigid and literal with it. So there is a lil genuinity to my comment but very little.
Why are you a CSUNer?
So Quim, would you consider yourself to be a Cunning Linguist?
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