First Americans to Settle America Came From Europe

[Californio]

Originally Posted by El Californio

Your roots, that's what. I never said that you have to feel any obligation to government of Mexico (the government is a relic of colonialism) but the people and culture are another matter entirely. You not feeling that connection is similar to a son of Chinese immigrants looking at anything that is Chinese as completely foreign when their people come from that

I will always feel foreign in Mexico. "Oh look at those pochos", and here I'm Mexican. In Mexico I'm White. What's the deal? When we go back to Mexico there is always an anti-norteno sentiment.

Where exactly in northern Mexico is your family from? My fam isn't from northern or even southern Mexico. We're from Jalisco in central Mexico on the west coast. I too have some family that is light skinned but that doesn't mean we're European. Our culture and roots are from Jalisco. I know this because no matter how light or dark some may be, I can see Native features and in their faces.

My grandparents from both sides settled in a little town, my assumption is they broke off from Guadalajara. My father did live in Guadalajara when he was younger. Well I don't see that many Native features in my immediate family except for some cousins I have who are of Peruvian descent. And even one of those kids has red hair. One of my uncles when he shaves his head could be mistaken for a skinhead LOL.

The names of the towns and ranchos are in Nahuatl which tells of deeper historical ties beyond what the road sign says (such as saying that towns were founded in 1524). Roots run deep my friend. Much deeper than most care to imagine.

In the town where my parents are from there were indians there. In hills they've found indian artifacts. However the town was established only recently.. goes back about 70 years.

So we needed the White man from the North to tell us who we really are?

No, who the indians were. Same goes for the egyptians. Who leads most of the excavations?? Americans! In fact a Russian dude deciphered a lot of Mayan hyrogliphs during World War 2.

[El Californio]

Originally Posted by Californio

I will always feel foreign in Mexico. "Oh look at those pochos", and here I'm Mexican. In Mexico I'm White. What's the deal? When we go back to Mexico there is always an anti-norteno sentiment.

Well duh! It's always been like that. When I was a kid I got into a few fights over someone calling me a pocho (usually with a primo or two).

And in this country there has always been some anti-Mexican sentiment. As Chicanos it's just something that we have to deal with, catching it from both sides.

Originally Posted by Californio

My grandparents from both sides settled in a little town, my assumption is they broke off from Guadalajara. My father did live in Guadalajara when he was younger. Well I don't see that many Native features in my immediate family except for some cousins I have who are of Peruvian descent. And even one of those kids has red hair. One of my uncles when he shaves his head could be mistaken for a skinhead LOL.

Guadalajara? But I thought you said northern Mexico? That's not very 'northern' to me.

Originally Posted by Californio

In the town where my parents are from there were indians there. In hills they've found indian artifacts. However the town was established only recently.. goes back about 70 years.

Again which area of Mexico is this?

Originally Posted by Californio

No, who the indians were. Same goes for the egyptians. Who leads most of the excavations?? Americans! In fact a Russian dude deciphered a lot of Mayan hyrogliphs during World War 2.

Early excavations in Egypt were started by French, British, and other Europeans to my understanding.

[Californio]

Originally Posted by El Californio

Guadalajara? But I thought you said northern Mexico? That's not very 'northern' to me.

I believe the cut offline from Northern to Southern Mexico is Mexico City.

Again which area of Mexico is this?

I'm not going to tell you exactly, its a town near Guadalajara.

[El Californio]

Originally Posted by Californio

I believe the cut offline from Northern to Southern Mexico is Mexico City.

Says who? I've never heard of Jalisco being part of northern Mexico. Pull up a map. Jalisco is either considered central or west coast Mexico.

Originally Posted by Californio

I'm not going to tell you exactly, its a town near Guadalajara.

"Oooh, I'm not gonna tell you!"

It's not like I'm gonna go blow up your rancho or anything. . . My family is from a rancho near Guadalajara too. For all I know you could be a long lost cousin or some shit (God I hope not)

Jalisco history is one big mixture of Native cultures.

[Californio]

Originally Posted by El Californio

Says who? I've never heard of Jalisco being part of northern Mexico. Pull up a map. Jalisco is either considered central or west coast Mexico.






"Oooh, I'm not gonna tell you!"

It's not like I'm gonna go blow up your rancho or anything. . . My family is from a rancho near Guadalajara too. For all I know you could be a long lost cousin or some shit (God I hope not)

Jalisco history is one big mixture of Native cultures.

Mariachi is Native culture?!

[El Californio]

Originally Posted by Californio

Mariachi is Native culture?!

Mariachi is music originating in the 18th century Mexico. So what's your point?

[Californio]

Originally Posted by El Californio

Mariachi is music originating in the 18th century Mexico. So what's your point?

I'm saying Mexican culture is a mixture of both European and Native culture no matter what way you twist it. I never knew Natives played brass instruments

[El Californio]

Originally Posted by Californio

I'm saying Mexican culture is a mixture of both European and Native culture no matter what way you twist it. I never knew Natives played brass instruments

Modern Mexican culture does have European elements to it (the Spanish language, pan dulce, etc.) but the main root of our culture is Native. The foods we eat, cultural celebrations, La Llorona, even the Spanish we speak (many Native words) and the Mexican brand of Catholicism (Tonatzin = La Virgen de Guadalupe) is Native in nature.

BTW, who ever said pre-Columbian Natives played brass instrumnents?

[Californio]

Originally Posted by El Californio

Modern Mexican culture does have European elements to it (the Spanish language, pan dulce, etc.) but the main root of our culture is Native. The foods we eat, cultural celebrations, La Llorona, even the Spanish we speak (many Native words) and the Mexican brand of Catholicism (Tonatzin = La Virgen de Guadalupe) is Native in nature.

BTW, who ever said pre-Columbian Natives played brass instrumnents?

It goes beyond pan dulce LOL. Where do you think the entire quincenera thing came from?

The foods we eat? The Natives had pigs? horses? cattle? How are you supposed to eat menudo with out cow stomach? How are you supposed to eat Carne asada taco's with no cow meat?? La Llorona myth has been repeated through the centuries, it also comes up in Greek Mythology strangly. Listen to Mexican music. Banda, mariachi rarely use any native instruments. The accordion is not even from Spain, its from GERMANY!

The most direct analogue with the La Llorona story is that of the Greek Medea, who likewise murdered her children after being abandoned by Jason, although Medea showed little remorse

No matter how much it hurts, you cannot continue to deny that our culture influenced by both European and Native culture. Southern Mexico tends to have more indigenous taste, as seen in their food. They eat insects among other things...

[El Californio]

Originally Posted by Californio

It goes beyond pan dulce LOL. Where do you think the entire quincenera thing came from?

Many of the Spanish/Catholic traditions had Native equivalents, some research would show you that. Many Native "Gods" became Catholic Saints. Those similarities made the conversions easier.

What about el Dia de Los Muertos? That is a Native holiday.

Originally Posted by Californio

The foods we eat? The Natives had pigs? horses? cattle? How are you supposed to eat menudo with out cow stomach? How are you supposed to eat Carne asada taco's with no cow meat?? La Llorona myth has been repeated through the centuries, it also comes up in Greek Mythology strangly. Listen to Mexican music. Banda, mariachi rarely use any native instruments. The accordion is not even from Spain, its from GERMANY!

So how did they eat menudo you ask? They didn't!

Menudo is a Spanish food. No carne asada? What were they gonna do without cows? Please.

In place of beef, many Natives had deer meat. There are even accounts of Natives raising deer and having them in pens similar to our use of livestock. Your homies the Spanish set them free.

In place of pork, they had peccaries (old world pigs).

Chicken? No they had turkey.

Pozole (pozoli) is a Native dish (original pozoli was made with turkey).
Tacos, enchiladas, chilaquiles, carnitas, etc etc are Native foods.

BTW, your beloved menudo is actually slave food from when Natives, mestizos, zambos & negros were slaves and/or living under the hacienda system.

Ditto for modern pozole with all the pigs feet, ears, tongues, snouts, pig heads, and all the other parts that the "masters" didn't want to eat.

Buches, tripas, colitas de res, all those cuts of meat are slave food.

La Llorona in not Greek. Maybe those boy-lovers in Athens had a similar being, but it was of their own creation.


Oh yeah, carne asada. I highly doubt that the Spanish were the first to think of putting animal flesh to fire so for any one people to claim that they did it first would be asinine.

Originally Posted by Californio

No matter how much it hurts, you cannot continue to deny that our culture influenced by both European and Native culture. Southern Mexico tends to have more indigenous taste, as seen in their food. They eat insects among other things...

Influenced by European cultures but based on Native cultures.

So the fact that a few Natives in Oaxaca eat insects is repulsive? What about the "Western" diet? In it we eat molds (cheese) and fungi (mushrooms). But the truth is, we don't see those foods that way because those are "normal" foods. Normal is in the eye of the beholder.

Hell if one goes to Asia in places like Indonesia, China, and Thailand, people eat insects and aren't look at as being backwards.

One thing that does really turn my stomach is thinking of the Russian diet. For many of these European people, eating bread slathered in manteca covers two of their basic food groups.

[NUNZombie]

Originally Posted by Californio

The foods we eat? The Natives had pigs? horses? cattle? How are you supposed to eat menudo with out cow stomach? How are you supposed to eat Carne asada taco's with no cow meat?? La Llorona myth has been repeated through the centuries, it also comes up in Greek Mythology strangly. Listen to Mexican music. Banda, mariachi rarely use any native instruments. The accordion is not even from Spain, its from GERMANY!

Making use of what lies among the natural landscape is not the equivalent of
being influenced by another culture.

Animals,plants, raw materials are apart of nature not a people.

If I can't stand people from D.R. Congo am I a hypocrite if I enjoy eating imported hippo?

no

Cattle are not an extension of European people.

Besides, who is to say what is apart of ones culture or not?

I am a Mestizo, I have Mestizo culture but that doesn't mean I accept everything that is Mestizo as apart of my heritage.

Cultures are not pools of randomness.

They are handpicked, assorted and accepted.

[El Californio]

Originally Posted by sanmino

. . . but in my heart of hearts my ancestors were here since the beginning of time, since the beginning.

x2

One more thing. I'm just curious why nobody tried to refute the points in my last post?

Where'd our European breathren go?

Originally Posted by SLUGZ642

Marriachi music is German matter of fact is is NAZI because I remember seeing Hitler in a picture with marriachi Vargas.

Your right! Here's the proof!!

[LaChavela]

This was a good read