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  #1  
Old 02-28-2013
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Default I want to know what men are made of

So my friends and I are planning a Spring Break trip to South Padre (Texas's biggest Spring Break destination), and I invited one of my friends from back home to come. She is attending college back home and still lives with her parents. There is nothing wrong with that, yet due to that at 21 years of age, she still has to ask permission, nothing wrong with that either. Yet her parents said no on the basis that they don't think it is safe since we are only girls. It is a culture thing, her parents are not the only ones who believe that women cannot take care of ourselves on our own. It is frustrating indeed. I am glad my parents don't feel that way - heck on my trip to Europe last summer it was just me and a friend.

Anyway I want to know what men are made from that makes them indestructible and keeps them from being attacked. It is just so sexist. Yes I know it is South Padre and there are guys trying to get laid and trying to take advantage of drunk girls, yet it is group of us, we are not stupid, and we look out after each other. I just hate that mentality that a woman cannot go anywhere without a man. Anyway how do you feel about this? Do you agree with my friend's parents? With me? And have you experienced this yourself?
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

its simple biology. Its not about intelligence.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

Yeah, unless your ronda rousey, your pretty much fucked. Not always, but just the fact that you can't "take care" of yourself. That and you are chicks.

A guy who is willing to attack a woman, is willing to molest them. While a guy willing to attack another guy just may not like the way the other guy looks/carries himself. Its been that way for centuries really, things have changed to an extent, but motives havent.

Women can molest a guy, but it doesnt happen that often, or at the least it doesnt get reported.

There are probably plenty of men that will get attacked, they just may not be molested. You can always carry yourself as a badass and there will always be someone to test it.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

I have always thought the main reason for this aspect of treatment of genders in most Mexican families was mainly (but not the only reason) because women can get pregnant and men can't.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

I understand biology and that men are biologically stronger. I love to have a men around to help me move and stuff, because I know that most likely he will be stronger than me. Yet I guess what bothers me is that they think she should limit her life opportunities simply because there is not a man there to take care of us. I think that we should be cautious, I am not saying I am a bad ass. I will be honest when I was in Europe alone as a woman I made sure to be back before dark, and the times I did go out to party I was very cautious about walking in the light, walking with a guy or a group of people. And it sucks that as a woman I have to think of those things and worry about that. Yet just because that is my reality does not mean that I am not going to travel, or go out at night.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Originally Posted by _aztec_princess_ View Post
I understand biology and that men are biologically stronger.
It's not just strength, but just the fact that most sexual predators and date rapists (at least the ones we hear about) are preying on women.


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Originally Posted by _aztec_princess_ View Post
Yet I guess what bothers me is that they think she should limit her life opportunities simply because there is not a man there to take care of us..
People worry about their kids. No matter what their gender or how old they get. I'm a 35 year old nerd and my mom still think there's a chance I could be peer pressured into joining a gang or doing drugs
And really, doing goofy shit like partying on Spring Break is not really a "life experience" that people need to have. It's not like it's an opportunity to man a space shuttle.




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I will be honest when I was in Europe alone as a woman I made sure to be back before dark, and the times I did go out to party I was very cautious about walking in the light, walking with a guy or a group of people. And it sucks that as a woman I have to think of those things and worry about that. Yet just because that is my reality does not mean that I am not going to travel, or go out at night.
I think it sucks too.

A few months back, I was doing my laundry and hanging out in the hallway, which happens to be by a women's restroom for the restaurant downstairs (I live in a weird place). A young white girl, probably about your age was walking up the stairs and she froze and look startled when she seen me standing there. Me, forgetting that I could actually look intimidating or menacing to a young female, almost thought there was someone creepy looking standing behind me. Then it registered that she was in fact afraid of me. So I told her I was just doing some laundry and I was sorry that I startled her.
She was very apologetic and told me that it wasnt personal. I knew it wasnt personal. I happen to fit the profile of a sexual predator at that moment (a lone male standing near a womens restroom) and she was just being cautious, as she should be, as a female.

I think sometimes women get a little too caught up in their feminist ideals, thinking they can do anything a man can do. They can't.
Whether you like it or not, you have to play by the rules of a female.

Just like if I'm on a sinking ship, I can't all of a sudden decide I want to leave with the women and the children. As a man, it's my fate to die on that boat.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
It's not just strength, but just the fact that most sexual predators and date rapists (at least the ones we hear about) are preying on women.
Yes you are right, yet most woman who get raped get raped by a family member or a family acquaintance. Although the likelihood of getting raped on a college campus is higher than the rest of the female population, it is more likely for a woman to get raped by someone she knows.



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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
People worry about their kids. No matter what their gender or how old they get. I'm a 35 year old nerd and my mom still think there's a chance I could be peer pressured into joining a gang or doing drugs
And really, doing goofy shit like partying on Spring Break is not really a "life experience" that people need to have. It's not like it's an opportunity to man a space shuttle.
While Spring Break is not a must have and people can do without it, it is still an experience. It is also not the first time she or any other woman is being denied something based on gender. That is just the current situation which inspired this rant.


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I think it sucks too.

A few months back, I was doing my laundry and hanging out in the hallway, which happens to be by a women's restroom for the restaurant downstairs (I live in a weird place). A young white girl, probably about your age was walking up the stairs and she froze and look startled when she seen me standing there. Me, forgetting that I could actually look intimidating or menacing to a young female, almost thought there was someone creepy looking standing behind me. Then it registered that she was in fact afraid of me. So I told her I was just doing some laundry and I was sorry that I startled her.
She was very apologetic and told me that it wasnt personal. I knew it wasnt personal. I happen to fit the profile of a sexual predator at that moment (a lone male standing near a womens restroom) and she was just being cautious, as she should be, as a female.

I think sometimes women get a little too caught up in their feminist ideals, thinking they can do anything a man can do. They can't.
Whether you like it or not, you have to play by the rules of a female.

Just like if I'm on a sinking ship, I can't all of a sudden decide I want to leave with the women and the children. As a man, it's my fate to die on that boat.
I guess I am caught up by my feminist ideals, yet if every women who challenged the status-quo had decided not to then we wouldn't have gotten to be where we are today. Many women have been told that their place is at home, or that they don't belong in men's professions, yet time and time again women have proven that we are capable, and that we in fact can do men's roles. I am sure that women were told that education was a men thing, yet they challenged it, and thanks to them I am now able to attend a university.

Also it is more important to socialize our men not to rape, rather than to just do victim blaming.

Finally, while I appreciate your sacrifice as a man, the chance that you will be on a sinking boat with limited life saving devices is far more slim than the fact that I, as a woman, will have to think twice before traveling alone.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Originally Posted by _aztec_princess_ View Post
Also it is more important to socialize our men not to rape, rather than to just do victim blaming.
Whoa, who is blaming the victim?
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Whoa, who is blaming the victim?
Ha, how did I know that out of all I said, this would be what was highlighted, you are not specifically doing victim blaming. But society does it all the time. If a women gets raped the questions begin: "what was she wearing?" "where was she?" "was she walking alone?" "was she drinking?" "did she lead him on?" etc, etc., rather than focusing on the fact that someone else committed the crime of raping her. When you mentioned things that as a woman I should be the one to be cautious, then that reminded me that women are the ones socialized to prevent rape, rather than men being socialized not to rape. Victim blaming is placing the responsibility on the victim rather than the attacker.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

I know what "victim blaming" is.

Saying that we should teach men not to rape is really a moot point. Of course we should, but the fact is, it happens. And the targets are usually women.

Just like people who drive Bentley's have to worry about car jackers. It's not "blaming the victim" to advise them to protect themselves from car jackers.
It's simply practical advice, in a world were these things happen and they're the usual targets.
It really doesnt do them any good to say "well, we should fix the social injustices and disparities in wealth so people don't feel the need to steal other peoples cars" when they're being stuffed into the trunk of their car.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
I know what "victim blaming" is.

Saying that we should teach men not to rape is really a moot point. Of course we should, but the fact is, it happens. And the targets are usually women.

Just like people who drive Bentley's have to worry about car jackers. It's not "blaming the victim" to advise them to protect themselves from car jackers.
It's simply practical advice, in a world were these things happen and they're the usual targets.
It really doesnt do them any good to say "well, we should fix the social injustices and disparities in wealth so people don't feel the need to steal other peoples cars" when they're being stuffed into the trunk of their car.
I apologize, at no point did I mean to insult your intelligence by explaining a concept.

Targets for rape are usually women, and one should take practical precautions. I am not an idiot to believe that the socialization of man will be restructured over night, yet I am fool enough to believe that our generation can start it.

And while I like your analogy on fixing financial disparities so that people will not steal cars, people who drive Bently's are not the most common victims of car thefts. A simple google search reveals that 1. Honda Civic (1995)
Honda Accord (1991)
Toyota Camry (1989) source: http://editorial.autos.msn.com/artic...umentid=434545 are the most commonly stolen vehicles. One does not need to be rich to own any of these vehicles.

Finally, I agree that as a woman one should take practical precautions, no discussion there. Do I like it? no. Do I wish it didn't have to be this way? Absolutely. Will I limit my life experiences because of fears and what if's? No.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

I'm not telling you to not travel or restrict your movements in any way. Just simply stating that men and women do have to go about it a little differently. And one group has to exercise just a bit more caution.

And enough with the statistics. That stifles critical thought
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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I'm not telling you to not travel or restrict your movements in any way. Just simply stating that men and women do have to go about it a little differently. And one group has to exercise just a bit more caution.
Exactly this is what my rant is about the fact that we have to do things differently, and the fact that it sucks.

You are not telling me not to travel, I was simply referencing my friend's parents who will not let her travel because they do not think it is safe without men present.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

That's basically it: the idea that women *can't* take care of themselves, because they're too weak, and thus *need* a man to do it for them. Ridiculous.

I wouldn't advise traveling anywhere foreign alone, but I don't see how two girls can be that different from a girl and a guy. Assuming she has a working brain and some way to contact friends, relatives, and authorities, I don't see a problem. Plenty of women have no issue using what they've learned in martial arts training, the military, etc on creeps, and have enough common sense to do their homework on the area and use common sense to minimize their chances. Being female doesn't stop them from enjoying life.

Women are more likely to be victims of sexual abuse, this is true, but men are also four times likely to be victims of assault, yet no one is holding their hands, so I think somewhere down the line, it comes down to their value as potential mothers. Women are seen as an asset, for their ability to give birth, while men, well, no one really cares what happens to them, since they're only good for fertilizing eggs, and there's always another ready to take on the job. Besides, if he dies heroically, defending something, he's a 'man', and if some other way, well, he wasn't a 'real man'.

...

That said, I'm visiting my first bear bar soon, and I'm a *little* apprehensive. Lesbian acquaintances have assured me that most are very friendly and frown on creeps giving newbies a hard time, but I still did some research on bar etiquette, just in case someone slips through the cracks and becomes overly comfortable.

I think every straight guy should spend time in a gay bar just to have some idea what women have to go through on a daily basis. That is, if they don't punch the first guy to grab their ass, or run for the nearest exit after a few seconds of taking in the view.
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Originally Posted by _aztec_princess_ View Post
Finally, while I appreciate your sacrifice as a man, the chance that you will be on a sinking boat with limited life saving devices is far more slim than the fact that I, as a woman, will have to think twice before traveling alone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=XlR6CdJtRWM
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Originally Posted by Nelio View Post
So I watched the video and he mentioned fires and firearm casualties. I looked up the civilian casualties of fire and found that

Males accounted for 53 percent of injuries and women accounted for 47 percent of the injuries.

Yes, men are injured more often but only 6%, significant, but not enough to make this a valid argument either. Men and Women are dying and getting injured by fire at roughly the same rate.

source: http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/p...tics/v13i3.pdf
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

Maybe they just don't want her whoring around @ a Spring Break hotspot?

It's probably the truth behind the "girls shouldn't go w/out a man" excuse.
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Maybe they just don't want her whoring around @ a Spring Break hotspot?

It's probably the truth behind the "girls shouldn't go w/out a man" excuse.
Could be true, but then this could open other discussions like do they not trust their upbringing of her? Do they not trust her? And is it only okay for men to enjoy sexuality and not women, if that is the case?
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

I am just going to miss the point of this thread entirely and say the following:

Although i would agree with you that there is nothing wrong with living at home, I'd say if she wants a bit more freedom, maybe you can encourage her to move out? Easier said than done of course. But best way to prove to parents that you are trustworthy, responsible and can make great decisions is by leaving the nest and proving you are an adult and capable of making adult decisions.

Either way, I think it's great that she asks her parents for permission. Most 18+ year olds wouldn't or they would do it anyways if their parents didn't let them.
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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And while I like your analogy on fixing financial disparities so that people will not steal cars, people who drive Bently's are not the most common victims of car thefts. A simple google search reveals that 1. Honda Civic (1995)

I didnt say car thefts. I said car jackings. Its common knowledge that "chop shops" prefer common cars like Hondas, Toyota's, etc.
I'm talking about someone coming up to your window with a gun to your face, telling you to GTFO of the car.

BMW actually has an anti-car jacking mechanism available on their cars in South Africa, where car jackings are very commom



But what cars are actually most targeted for these kinds of robberies isnt really that relevant to the discussion.
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Last edited by KoolArrow; 03-01-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

As a woman, always depend on your own warning signals.
Always, keep your wits about you.
Never put your safety in the hands of another.
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

Someone needs to socialize me to stop raping women because I'm a man and thats what men do.

I remember when I was in Uni and I'd listen to these discussions. You couldn't win (much less come to a mutual understanding) with most of them.

Regarding the girl in question; she wants freedom? She needs to move out. One day after having jello shots and deciding she wants to enjoy her sexuality, she'll get it on with some bro in Cabo (later she'll claim it was rape), and then she'll remember mommy and daddy the prudes.
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Someone needs to socialize me to stop raping women because I'm a man and thats what men do.

I remember when I was in Uni and I'd listen to these discussions. You couldn't win (much less come to a mutual understanding) with most of them.
.
Agree.

In a college, men are the minority and the pseudo-feminist have already drank the Kool-Aid and made up their minds about how the world should be.
Speak out against any of the rhetoric and you're "victim blaming" and a misogynist
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Originally Posted by _aztec_princess_ View Post
Could be true, but then this could open other discussions like do they not trust their upbringing of her? Do they not trust her? And is it only okay for men to enjoy sexuality and not women, if that is the case?
Well, that all depends on their individual relationship. It'd be hasty to generalize her parents in order to fill in the gaps when we don't know all the details.
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Old 03-01-2013
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Default Re: I want to know what men are made of

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Originally Posted by LaChavela View Post
As a woman, always depend on your own warning signals.
Always, keep your wits about you.
Never put your safety in the hands of another.
I agree, we need to learn to look out after ourselves, and not always depend on having a man there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Someone needs to socialize me to stop raping women because I'm a man and thats what men do.

I remember when I was in Uni and I'd listen to these discussions. You couldn't win (much less come to a mutual understanding) with most of them.
I did not say that to imply that most men rape, that is obviously not the case. I said that to counter the generalization that women should be the only ones preventing rape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
Regarding the girl in question; she wants freedom? She needs to move out. One day after having jello shots and deciding she wants to enjoy her sexuality, she'll get it on with some bro in Cabo (later she'll claim it was rape), and then she'll remember mommy and daddy the prudes.
The girl in question is only ONE example of a recurring theme in our culture, that women cannot take care of themselves and that they need a man to be there. I am very much against women claiming rape when it did not happen. It makes the rest of us lose credibility when true rape has in fact occurred.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
Agree.

In a college, men are the minority and the pseudo-feminist have already drank the Kool-Aid and made up their minds about how the world should be.
Speak out against any of the rhetoric and you're "victim blaming" and a misogynist
Once again, I did not say you were victim blaming but we must agree that victim blaming happens in our culture quite a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliPac View Post
Well, that all depends on their individual relationship. It'd be hasty to generalize her parents in order to fill in the gaps when we don't know all the details.
Yeah I agree, which is why I said that that could be true, yet if that were the case then the answer should have been addressed differently, as in "I don't think you should go, because there will be a lot of horny boys that may try to take advantage of you, or you may feel it easy to have sex in such an environment." Rather than "no you cannot travel unless a man accompanies you."
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