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Old 05-09-2004
Volkito Volkito is offline
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Default What should be done? (IRAQ)

Here is an article I found very moving. It's written by an american journalist who tries and helps civilians in the war zone...

http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates...-2-95-1843.jsp

...one mustn't neglect the very difficult situation the soldiers are in.... but it just seems to be so all fucked up the way it is right now!!

What would be the right thing to do from now on?
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Old 05-12-2004
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I’d like to put aside for while, if the war was/is justified or not, but rather look at the situation right now and how to make the best out of it. Otherwise it’s all getting even more complicated to discuss…

...as far as I can judge, the situation right now is just so horrible!!
The (US and other) soldiers are highly suspicious about every Iraqi, because he might possibly carry a bomb to blow up himself and the people around him. Although in 9999 of 10000 cases they are just innocent civilians with no bombs and no bad intentions, still it’s very well understood that the soldiers are kind of nervous and suspicious towards all of them, since lives, including their own, depend on it.
It is very hard to find out if this civilian really just is a civilian or if he or she wants to attack you. When you notice the bomb it might be too late already. Then in addition there are language problems and because of very different cultures etc. and possibly body language problems as well, I imagine it can be very hard to judge someone approaching you or just passing nearby. Is he/she an attacker or just a normal Iraqi kid going to school?
So I would say it’s understood why once in a while (or maybe frequently) innocent Iraqi civilians get shot. And it is VERY VERY hard if not impossible to rule it out, as long as there are bomb attacks and other war actions going on. And this triggers so much hate towards the (US and other) soldiers. Well understood, too. Not later than when a family member of one or a close friend gets innocently injured or shot by the (US or other) soldiers, everyone would stop to accept this just as a non-avoidable happening of this situation. -- And all goes towards even more escalation…

On the other hand what would happen if they withdraw all the troops. …I personally think it might get even worse. There are so many armed Iraqi bandits that just wouldn’t care about other peoples live as one can see by those bombing attacks. Most of the victims are other Iraqis. They would just try to rob and oppress all those normal civilians. – The chaos probably would be even bigger…

So what do you think? How should be proceeded? Any ideas?

Regards,
Volk¡to
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Old 05-12-2004
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...does nobody in here have an opinion about that?

Should the troops stay or should they withdraw? ...and what would be the result then? (Which of course can't be anything but speculation)
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Old 06-11-2004
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...-bounce-...
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Old 06-13-2004
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I dont where i would begain to talk about the situation in irak... all i know its just a crazy mess out there... i dont have TV right now at the moment so i havnt been keeping up with whats going on over there.
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Old 06-13-2004
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well .... its easier to say what sould have or should not have been done in the past..
but what should be done right now ... im not informed enough about the situation ...and even if i was ...... to be honest i dont think im smart enough to know that its really complex, and theres so much misinformation so its almost impossible to know
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Old 06-13-2004
Imperial619 Imperial619 is offline
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They should leave, but if they do Iraq would say they backed out. So now we got to finish what we started.
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Old 06-13-2004
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i'e come to accept that i'll be there soon, it will be like here in korea a place were you go and serve a year of duty,
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Old 06-13-2004
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del-ete
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Old 06-13-2004
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i usually dont get involved with politics and i try to remain as neutral as possible, but i dont think there should be americans over there. that is a war-torn country that does not show any real progression towards the better. my cousin who is over there in the army said something like 12 people he knew were killed over a months time. and for what???? and i have a friend who joined the air force about a year ago. his recruiter told him he wouldnt get shipped out. the day he went home after he finished his schooling, he got his assignment. in 3 months hes supposed to be going over seas. they lied to him, just like they lie to a lot of kids, especially minorities, to get them to sign up.
the united states is not the superman of all the lands. i belive the only thing that can change the situation for the better would have to be a higher being i like to call God.
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Old 06-13-2004
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you bounced it a lot for a day. LOL.

My opinion is the troops should be taken out. How would you like it if another country's soldiers were occupying your country?
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Old 06-16-2004
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Default the u.s. needs to leave

only thing the u.s. is doing over there is committin' genocide. it's government that is killin' our soldiers, even the ones that don't get kill over there might come back with cancer like last gulf vets did. have you seen the news of all these soldiers back from the war killing their wives, children, robbing banks and askin' to be put into jail? and how many iraqis died in fallujuh that week? 1,000? children takin' bullets into the head. soccer staduims being turn into mass graves site, i heard iraqis couldn't even buried their dead 'cause of the snipers. i don't like to attack the soldiers since my dad was one and i know not all of them the same, but all these soldiers who abuse prisoners and kill the innocent on purpose are getting on my last nerve. i respct the ones who went awol and ones sent to military prison for refusing to fight 'cause they said no. like that bull with military police who abuse the prisoners said they did it 'cause they were told so. So?? say no. stand up. if they told you to shoot yourself in the head would you do that too? makes you wonder what they really teaching in basic training. i don't want u.s. soldiers to die but i sure as hell dont' want iraqi freedom fighters to lose. what's happenin' in iraq is repeat what u.s. and other white countries have been doing for many, many years. what's happenin' in iraq is a repeat what happen to aztecs, tainos, incans, sixous, apaches, etc etc. and for us to think kerry is better than bush is stupid. they both came from skull & bones, they both didn't deny it either on live television. i'm big time anti-u.s., i don't believe in governments i'm more for anarchy which is alot like what many native american nations follow until whites came. i think leader should be a leader by the choice of the people for his/her action, not for his money or fame. but if people of this country want to follow this government they going to need third party to come. 'cause these two parties we've are the same. like beer twins. we need leaders who will talk and debate what is the best solution through peace, not drop bombs and make up lies about wmbs and fake terror cell being there just so they can steal iraq's oil to make the men who gave him the money to win the election can get richer. since u.s. government came to power all their wars have been about this which is insane for them to say they stand for freedom. only thing they stand for is conquest. until people, not one race, people come together and make a change, wars like iraq will be repeated in near future. this so called war on terrorism use to be called cold war before that the indian war. i wonder what will next one will be called
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Old 06-16-2004
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Default Re: the u.s. needs to leave

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBrown
like that bull with military police who abuse the prisoners said they did it 'cause they were told so. So?? say no. stand up. if they told you to shoot yourself in the head would you do that too?
makes you wonder what they really teaching in basic training.
You have to understand, like christianity, they only want people who follow and do not question authority (in christianity, they make anything that is different is from "Satan". In the military, it's pretty much treason.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBrown
and for us to think kerry is better than bush is stupid. they both came from skull & bones, they both didn't deny it either on live television.
Alright, someone who sees this also. Many people on this site think Kerry is better than Bush. Makes me laugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBrown
i'm big time anti-u.s., i don't believe in governments i'm more for anarchy which is alot like what many native american nations follow until whites came.
I'm not only anti-us, but I'm also anti-imperialism. My goal has always been anarchy. When people think of anarchy, they see the propaganda and only think of chaos and riots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBrown
but if people of this country want to follow this government they going to need third party to come. 'cause these two parties we've are the same.
Third party is pretty much Revolution. With the propaganda of today's society, people see third party as a losing party instead of a party that would bring a better type of living to the people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBrown
since u.s. government came to power all their wars have been about this which is insane for them to say they stand for freedom. only thing they stand for is conquest. until people, not one race, people come together and make a change, wars like iraq will be repeated in near future. this so called war on terrorism use to be called cold war before that the indian war. i wonder what will next one will be called
Gotta love propaganda. People say "that's freedom this or that", but they do not really understand what Freedom is. Sadly, people forgot and do not remember that Reagan started the coldwar calling it a war against "terror" (Bush wasn't the first to start a war against "terror".). The next war will be an uprising of the people. Not sure when this happens, but I can feel that it will.
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Old 06-17-2004
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Default tecpaocelotl

yea i hear what you saying. but still, i know if i was one of the military police officers they told me to beat these people up or rape iraqi women i would say no and take half of my life into prison. treason or not, people should know better.

lol they crazy, kerry is worst. he's smarter than bush, bush is only a puppet. kerry is a puppet too but kerry served in nam while bush was scared running. so it shows kerry isn't afraid to fight. but still they're both the same, from the same parties, yeah i know people, you think they're not but underneath this world they're in the same party. remember, greatest trick the devil ever pulled was fooling the world he wasn't real. they'e fooling us right now just like they've been fooling americans for long, long time now.

i'm also anti-imperialism. i do hate it when people tell me anarchy is choas. (do you go to raisethefist.com?)

yeah, a third party would be a revolution. i would like to see people like nader given a chance to run for president on same scale bush and kerry are running on. but its' always about money. whoever has the most money can run. and many people in this world are stupid enough to accept the two party system. i'm still going to vote for nader and i don't care if it takes away votes from kerry. i actually want bush to stay in office 'cause if kerry wins the country wlll forget again like it did durin' clinton years. but bush didn't win last one either, i do believe he will win this one even if kerry gets the most votes. and after bush will be given power to rule like hitler (with real men who are behind the puppet bush) and dark age will come. but that's my theory, i do hope good will come.

i did not know reagan called the cold war "terror" too. thanks for sharin' that knowledge with me. but it doesn't surprise me either. they probably use the same words against our red people back then. sixous, apaches, and all the others were seen as terrorist like we see the arabs of today.
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