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  #1  
Old 08-23-2005
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Default The war in Iraq

So going to Iraq was a mistake or the way that the United States went in there was wrong...but now the United States is there and there is much controversy about it....so what should the United States do?

Pull out of Iraq....if we look at the past we know that the United States has made that mistake before and it resulted in bringing Suddam Husain to power.

Stay in Iraq and sacrifice the lives of more soldiers and even more money to make a society that will probably fall apart later on......

to me its a lose lose situation

ps...all respect goes to the people that are over there fighting...
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Old 08-23-2005
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Default Re: The war in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizdlt
if we look at the past we know that the United States has made that mistake before and it resulted in bringing Suddam Husain to power.
Saddam was not brought to power because of a pull out of the U.S. from Iraq.
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Old 08-23-2005
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maybe i worded it wrong... saddam was already in power but the resentment that is there against the us is there because when the cold war was still happening the us went in and gave this man weapons so that the us would be protected...long and behold when the us no longer needed him and his country they pulled out leaving a mess behind... so when saddam was fighting against the us the weapons they were using on both sides were american....
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Old 08-23-2005
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Default Re: The war in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizdlt
Pull out of Iraq....if we look at the past we know that the United States has made that mistake before and it resulted in bringing Suddam Husain to power.

Saddam got into power not through a pullot.
He was helped into power by the United States.


He was financed heavily by the Ronald Reagan and George Bush administration.


In fact, here is Donald Rumsfeld happily shaking Saddam's hand as a representative of the Reagan Administration to Iraq:





And here's a video of Donald Rumsfeld being happy buddies with Saddam on behalf of Reagan and Bush:

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle2038.htm




P.S. It's not a lose-lose situation, except that Bush has made it that way.

Bush could invite United Nations peacekeeping forces to phase in gradually and replace American troops.

But Bush isn't about that. He wants the oil.


The UN troops woul dhave troops from the United States, Britain, Italy, and Japan, which are Bush supporters. But Bush wants total control.
The Iraqis would welcome such a change of the guard, and the violence would slow down massively.
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Old 08-23-2005
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^^thanks for clearing up the facts...
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Old 08-23-2005
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I guess my point is that if the United States had been more responsible last time we would not have this situation going on today....if we pull out of iraq now its going to be a disaster...
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Old 08-23-2005
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Personally I do not believe in the Rockerfeller U.N.

I do not want American soldiers under the control of anyone but a U.S. commander.
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Old 08-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
Personally I do not believe in the Rockerfeller U.N.

I do not want American soldiers under the control of anyone but a U.S. commander.
Could it be that Iraqi insurgents feel the same way about their own country?



P.S. America has a permanent seat at the UN Security Council with a veto power.

Is that a high enough command for you?
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Old 08-23-2005
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Default Re: The war in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Tejano
We are invaded, we are there, and we will take care of the situation!
We have support from other countries and we will continue to move forward!

By the way, exactly why are we there?


Fox News:
Bush: No Link Between Iraq, Sept. 11 Attacks

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,97527,00.html


"We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the Sept. 11" attacks"
-- George W Bush




* No Weapons of Mass Destruction

* No nukes found

* No Osama Bin Ladin found

* No 9/11 connection (according to Bush, see above)
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Old 08-23-2005
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No the Veto power we have is not the same as a military commander giving orders to the troops on the ground. American forces should not be under the command of any foreign entity.

WMD could still be there buried some where in the sand. Considering we were arming Saddam and we truely don't know what the Reagan Admin gave him durning the 80's.

We never stated there were nukes, WMD does not have to be nukes.

We never stated Osama was there.

We never stated a 9/11 connection.

In any of the hundred of hours of footage I recorded and watched did I ever hear that the above were absolutes. They were all guesses as well as the fact daddy probablly whispered in to Jr. ear, "Ah son I forgot to tell the people that I gave Saddam some nasty chemicals during the 80's build."

So if you don't trust Bush then why trust that he didn't hand Saddam something he shouldn't have, thus endangering the American people.

Both sides used propganda to get their point across that is the nature of the beast. I took boths sides words with a grain of salt, my concren was what may have been given to Saddam during the 80's.
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Old 08-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
No the Veto power we have is not the same as a military commander giving orders to the troops on the ground. American forces should not be under the command of any foreign entity.

Who has more power over the war:

- a Commander on the ground
- The United States on the UN Security Council with full veto power?


Who takes orders from whom?





Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
WMD could still be there buried some where in the sand.
You may want to tell the White House of your insightful knowledge:

White House Admits WMD Error
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in562312.shtml




Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
We never stated there were nukes, WMD does not have to be nukes.

Did you not hear Vice-President Dick Cheney say it then?


Cheney: Saddam working on nuclear weapons
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLI...ney.interview/





Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
We never stated Osama was there.

This is totally true.
Of course, that's because Bush totally doesn't care about catching the leader and mastermind of Al-Queda.


Bush: "I'm Not Worried About Finding Bin Ladin"
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...2-034743-1472r






Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
We never stated a 9/11 connection.

You sure about that?


http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/091703C.shtml

Cheney Link of Iraq, 9/11 Challenged
By Anne E. Kornblut and Bryan Bender
Boston Globe

Tuesday 16 September 2003

WASHINGTON -- Vice President Dick Cheney, anxious to defend the White House foreign policy amid ongoing violence in Iraq, stunned intelligence analysts and even members of his own administration this week by failing to dismiss a widely discredited claim: that Saddam Hussein might have played a role in the Sept. 11 attacks.






Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
In any of the hundred of hours of footage I recorded and watched did I ever hear that the above were absolutes. They were all guesses as well as the fact daddy probablly whispered in to Jr. ear, "Ah son I forgot to tell the people that I gave Saddam some nasty chemicals during the 80's build."

Damn, guessing is a shitty reason to send thousands of Americans troops into harms' way, huh?

And you support his war based on "guesses?"


By the way, you're strating to sound like Clinton with the "is is" hair splitting of "no absolutes."



Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
So if you don't trust Bush then why trust that he didn't hand Saddam something he shouldn't have, thus endangering the American people.

Well Daddy Bush and Reagan are th eones who supplied him wth weapons in the 80's.


Let's blame them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
Both sides used propganda to get their point across that is the nature of the beast. I took boths sides words with a grain of salt, my concren was what may have been given to Saddam during the 80's.

Didn't you use to be a big time war cheerleader on this board?

yeah, I seem to recall it.



No offense bro. I don't know you personally,
but you seriously don't know what the fuck you're talking about.


(See above).
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2005
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i think the us needs to withdraw from iraq. the reason being that there presence there is an agitation and fuels the insurgents...

There is a lot to be won in iraq by the US...something that money cant buy... which is experience.

the experience in fighting a war that is largely unpopular with the American people...

it is a training ground, in my opinion for wars to come....


iran, syria... and the crown jewel... CHINA!

ahh... but i m just a dumbass thinkin up stupid conspiracy theories with no factual basis...silly me
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Old 08-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
There is a lot to be won in iraq by the US...something that money cant buy... which is experience.

the experience in fighting a war that is largely unpopular with the American people...


I guess you never heard of the Vietnam War, huh?

It kind of lasted like 10 years.


It was more unpopular than this war is right now.



P.S. If you think we will be able to attack China in the future
I want to smoke the same crack you're smoking.

100-200 million man army
as China is currently in possession of nukes
and acquiring military technology at an unprecedented rate.
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  #14  
Old 08-23-2005
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Who has more power over the war:

- a Commander on the ground
- The United States on the UN Security Council with full veto power?


Who takes orders from whom?


During a war a commander on the ground has more power, not some politican back in the world.


You may want to tell the White House of your insightful knowledge:

No need to they stated this before. Just because you can't seem them doesn't mean they exist.

Did you not hear Vice-President Dick Cheney say it then?

This is what he said and it does not say with absolutness. He said working on not that he had them.

Quote:
He's been free -- and we know he has -- to continue to improve his chemical weapons capability," Cheney said in the interview, broadcast Monday. "We know he has worked to and has succeeded in improving his biological weapons capability. And we're confident that he has also begun, once again, to try to acquire a nuclear weapon."

This is totally true.
Of course, that's because Bush totally doesn't care about catching the leader and mastermind of Al-Queda.


I agree with that and I never said otherwise.


You sure about that?

Well Since I knew there was no connection and it had been stated there wasn't I understand that Cheney was using propganda. Sorry if you or the other sheeple didn't.


Damn, guessing is a shitty reason to send thousands of Americans troops into harms' way, huh?
And you support his war based on "guesses?"
By the way, you're strating to sound like Clinton with the "is is" hair splitting of "no absolutes."


Its better then taking a chance that something was there as the old term "Better safe then sorry."

Well Daddy Bush and Reagan are th eones who supplied him wth weapons in the 80's.
Let's blame them.


Yeah they are and do you know for 100% that they didn't give him anything the shouldn't have? They sure taught Osama and crew how to us Black Ops and what happend Blow Back.

Didn't you use to be a big time war cheerleader on this board?
yeah, I seem to recall it.


Yeah I am for the war and listed my reasons for having to be there I have never hide that and I didn't hide that in this post.

No offense bro. I don't know you personally,
but you seriously don't know what the fuck you're talking about.


I can say the same about you a sell out that is willing to work with the U.N.
No Chicano/Mexica militant or revolutionary would ever work with the U.N. as they are just as much apart of the system as any other entity.
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  #15  
Old 08-23-2005
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Default Re: The war in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anahuac_History
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizdlt
Pull out of Iraq....if we look at the past we know that the United States has made that mistake before and it resulted in bringing Suddam Husain to power.

Saddam got into power not through a pullot.
He was helped into power by the United States.


He was financed heavily by the Ronald Reagan and George Bush administration.

That

In fact, here is Donald Rumsfeld happily shaking Saddam's hand as a representative of the Reagan Administration to Iraq:





And here's a video of Donald Rumsfeld being happy buddies with Saddam on behalf of Reagan and Bush:

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle2038.htm




P.S. It's not a lose-lose situation, except that Bush has made it that way.

Bush could invite United Nations peacekeeping forces to phase in gradually and replace American troops.

But Bush isn't about that. He wants the oil.


The UN troops woul dhave troops from the United States, Britain, Italy, and Japan, which are Bush supporters. But Bush wants total control.
The Iraqis would welcome such a change of the guard, and the violence would slow down massively.
We gave Saddam Hussein the keys to the City of Detroit two decades ago..
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Old 08-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anahuac_History
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
There is a lot to be won in iraq by the US...something that money cant buy... which is experience.

the experience in fighting a war that is largely unpopular with the American people...


I guess you never heard of the Vietnam War, huh?

It kind of lasted like 10 years.


It was more unpopular than this war is right now.



P.S. If you think we will be able to attack China in the future
I want to smoke the same crack you're smoking.

100-200 million man army
as China is currently in possession of nukes
and acquiring military technology at an unprecedented rate.
i was being sarcastic...

and u dont think that the goals of global hegemony by the US do not include a conquest of china? then my friend... u have underestimated the enemy...
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Old 08-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
Yeah I am for the war and listed my reasons for having to be there I have never hide that and I didn't hide that in this post.

I think it's intereting how you agree up and down with me about the missing proof of reasons to go to war

yet you still support it.


That tells me this is purely emotional for you
and has nothing to do with those darn, pesky facts.
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Old 08-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
and u dont think that the goals of global hegemony by the US do not include a conquest of china? then my friend... u have underestimated the enemy...

Well you were talking about invading China.
That aint gonna happen.


But I do know that the US has absolutly used this "War on Terror" to encircle China with makeshift military bases in countries like Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, yada yada.

China is like Shaq.

One does not conquer it.
One can only hope to contain it. And that is just a hope in the end.
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Old 08-23-2005
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this country will try to make that more than a hope tho...

it s all strategy...

p.s.

i dont do drugs... i listened to nancy reagan in the 80s...
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Old 08-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
this country will try to make that more than a hope tho...

it s all strategy...

It's like Michael Jordan trying to dominate Shaq.

It aint gonna happen
even tho MJ was a fantastic player.

The best he can do is to try shots from outside.
But he'll never out-rebound Shaq or dominate him inside.
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Old 08-23-2005
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yeah... but jordan has more championships/mvps/scoring titles...


the bulls dominated the first 8 yrs of the 90s... the US has dominated the last 80+...

they are building on what they got...

thats my opinion...

i dont rule nething out when it comes to this ruthless govt
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Old 08-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
i think the us needs to withdraw from iraq. the reason being that there presence there is an agitation and fuels the insurgents...

There is a lot to be won in iraq by the US...something that money cant buy... which is experience.

the experience in fighting a war that is largely unpopular with the American people...

it is a training ground, in my opinion for wars to come....


iran, syria... and the crown jewel... CHINA!

ahh... but i m just a dumbass thinkin up stupid conspiracy theories with no factual basis...silly me
The united states practically destroyed iraq...now they should just pull out dont you think this is a little irresponsible...dont you think that the people there need at least a little bit of structure before the united states leaves????
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Old 08-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizdlt
The united states practically destroyed iraq...now they should just pull out dont you think this is a little irresponsible...dont you think that the people there need at least a little bit of structure before the united states leaves????

That's like someone saying,

"Hey, I raped you.
Don't ask me to pull out now. You'll just go in trauma.

Let's date for awhile so I can leave behind some "structure" in you."
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  #24  
Old 08-23-2005
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you cant compare rape to this....
its more like i destroyed your house so ima help rebuild it so that your children wont be resentful towards me in the future

i think this is the argument i wanted to get to.....before the united states went in and made a deal with saddam hussain and then just left because of this saddam went in and invaded kuwait and the us was forced to interfere again......
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Old 08-24-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Tejano
WRONG!!!

THIS WAR IS NOT LARGELY UNPOPULAR WITH AMERICANS! JUST LIBERALS AND WE ALL KNOW THEY ARE ONLY 48%
Do you have proof of who and the actutal figure? Is popularity of this war among only conservatives? I think the war has become largely unpopular with all groups, not just liberals. last time I read, Bush is facing growing opposition to the war in Iraq by many. I mean, this whole week he has to be on the road just to to convince Americans. How sad is that, when Americans cant belive their leaders anymore
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