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  #26  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_arriero
So now you are saying that only true Mexicans worship the Virgen de Guadalupe. Tec, I'm sorry but I have to say the following.
You are full of sh*t on this one.

Instead of making me read some old threads, why can't you answer succinctly. I know it's painful to realize that your religion, Catholicism, was forced upon your ancestors. The Spanish raped Mexican women. That is why we have mostly Spanish Y chromosomes (male lineage) and Indigenous mitochondrial DNA (matrilineal lineage).

You are only fooling yourself by inventing scenarios that render the Virgen de Guadalupe as being continuous with the indigenous past. The Virgen de Guadalupe is a Catholic production. You don't know the Church as well as you should. Your psyche is forcing you to invent an indigenous past to your current Catholic traditions. The Catholic Church has tolerated some indigenous flavors in the past, but the main components of indigenous theology did not make it into the Catholic cut. It is entirely suspect. Do you know how easy it is to find the symbol of a cross in any culture? It doesn't mean anything if you find these secret "connections" because these motifs are automatic to human culture.

Do you actually, get off thinking that you were actually practicing indigenous religion under Catholic cover and that you can continue to be a pseudo-Catholic?? Here's a book for you to read:
It's called Secrecy and Deceit (Gitlitz), and its about crypto-judaism "pretending" to be Catholic. It's all the same sh*t.

Tec, and before you reply, spend a little more time with your thoughts before penning marvelous replies such as "X is dumb".
What have I not answered? Like I said, I'm not a Catholic by choice. What I want to do is seperation which will take what is ours before we leave it. You, being a Jew, want us to seperate from it completely. Yes, we can do that, but then the Catholics will get rid of those traditions or change it (which some have) and we lose. We have to get what is ours before we do. Like all systems that exploit our people, you have to infiltraite, get what is ours, and hopefully destroy it. Yes, the Catholics have screwed us, but we haven't lost it. There are many things happening in Mexico that I'm talking about. In Sonora, the Yaquis are divided on whether to keep their ceremonies with Catholics or taking off that aspect. In and around Mexico City, the same thing. How do you think Danza (the people in Mexica regalia that you see dancing everywhere) survive so long? What they did was seperate the Catholic aspect from their dance in the 20th century.

I am not inventing anything. I have sources if you even read all my posts in the threads. I will answer questions when you have questions. I just leave the links so you can do further learning and if you have questions, I'll answer them. Also, this is in the wrong thread like most of yours post. This is about Chicano Heroes and then the other one was about a book. You have to put them in the right thread.

I do spend time, I haven't written on that other one bc for 3 reasons. One, I'm writing a lot. Two, I'm at work at the time so it's taking me a while. Three, I have a life. I wanted to finish it, but I have obligations after work.
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  #27  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

ure a jew arriero? i saw from ur threads that u were an apologists and sympathized with em, but r u a jew?


just curious
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  #28  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
My group of heroes would be a mixture of folks... i m on the tip like chicahua...

For me, the center would have to be Emiliano Zapata b/c of his ability to lead w/o being condescending to what benefitted the people. He represents what resistance means IMO in folks of Mexican/indigenous descent....


Ricardo Flores Magon would be up there b/c he was a revolutionary writer and thinker who, along with his brother and others, put out some real deep shit that, i think got folks really thinking what was the need of the govt... Tierra y Libertad started in his mind...


Malcolm X b/c he was a straight G. his mind was above nething around that time. he was cold and calculated when he spoke (post secession from the NOI and Hajj). He had the ability to move and inspire mountains of people...

Michele Foucalt b/c i think his panopticon theory is a trip and i think succinctly (arriero's fav word) describes how people would act in a state of nature (without a state/govt)... it s like big brother without big brother...

Benito Juarez for his contributions to the ideal of liberty in a time when corruption was the m.o.

Huey P. Newton b/c he was an intelligent man who's life traveled parallel to happenings of the times....

Sub Marcos - b/c his writings and abilities to speak remind me of Malcolm... he speaks to ur soul not just ur ears...

some others i cant think of right now
List sounds good so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
ure a jew arriero? i saw from ur threads that u were an apologists and sympathized with em, but r u a jew?


just curious
I assume he's a jew on what he said:

Quote:
My choice of Judaism is in part a rejection of Catholicism, while still seeking a mature, advanced religion.
Either he's Jewish or in Kabala.
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  #29  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

i c.... kabala.... a great religious sect... i mean, it must be deep if madonna and britney spears r into it....


judaism, IMO is a religion who is waiting on some messiah who is never coming....
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  #30  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_arriero
Judaism!

I like my Old World monotheism undiluted like a neat glass of mezcal.
yup.
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  #31  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

^ I don't think we are far off-topic. We are talking about chicano heroes and I remarked how often we have contradictory heroes, atheists mixed with catholic icons. The contradiction is something I can live with but it does bear some discussion. We digressed only in discussing religious roots, but even that is relevant because it frames how we identify and relate to heroes, many of which are religious.

For instance, I noticed that el padrecito Miguel Hidalgo was left out even though he is considered instrumental in Mexico's independence. Is that because of his criollo/Church ties?

I think our religious views, which I feel the community is still in the beginning phases of formulating, tremendously affect who we see as heroes.

It is interesting that many of our heroes are political. I think we should have more heroes pertaining to music, arts, literature and culture as well.

On Benito Juarez, he was truly a great leader. He was fully indigenous and he was one of the best Presidens Mexico ever had. I would have painted him in the center the Stanford mural instead of Che, IMHO
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  #32  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Miguel hidalgo was mentioned by tec....


on him, i think he was a self righteous angry individual willing to gas rural peasants up to fight a war and die for a freedom that none of them would actually attain...

he was pissed b/c he lost a lot of his shit b/c of the reforms goin on within the colony b/c of the change in power in the old country...
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In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
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  #33  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
Miguel hidalgo was mentioned by tec....


on him, i think he was a self righteous angry individual willing to gas rural peasants up to fight a war and die for a freedom that none of them would actually attain...

he was pissed b/c he lost a lot of his shit b/c of the reforms goin on within the colony b/c of the change in power in the old country...
He was also excommunicated by the church.
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  #34  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

b/c of that, he lost all his possessions.... wasnt that during the bourbon reforms in spain and throughout the "new" world?
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  #35  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
b/c of that, he lost all his possessions.... wasnt that during the bourbon reforms in spain and throughout the "new" world?
The "new" world.

I'm glad he started the seperation of Spanish control, now we need someone to seperate us from Criollo control. LOL.
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  #36  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

yeah, u know it s all on ones own interpretation of history...
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In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
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  #37  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
yeah, u know it s all on ones own interpretation of history...
I think that was during that time.
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  #38  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
i c.... kabala.... a great religious sect... i mean, it must be deep if madonna and britney spears r into it....


judaism, IMO is a religion who is waiting on some messiah who is never coming....
And Christianity is the religion waiting for the messiah, who was supposed to come right back. And Christianity, must also be a great religious sect if deep people like madonna and britney spears go around with crosses on their necks.

What does this have to do with the topic?
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  #39  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Back on topic...

El Arriero,

I have picked a writer Ricardo Magon and two on culture: Florencio Yesca and Andres Segura.
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  #40  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

^ Right on. We need more scientists though (for the future).
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  #41  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_arriero
And Christianity is the religion waiting for the messiah, who was supposed to come right back. And Christianity, must also be a great religious sect if deep people like madonna and britney spears go around with crosses on their necks.

What does this have to do with the topic?
not a damn thing...


and ure right with the above...

reminds me of this song that says


WE NEED MASTERS IN BIOLOGY, ZOOLOGY... TO OVER TAKE ILLUMINATI TRICKNOLOGY!
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  #42  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_arriero
^ Right on. We need more scientists though (for the future).
I have heard of a story from David Vasquez about a man who could be technically considered a scientist thousands of years before the conquest, but I forgot his name.
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  #43  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
I have heard of a story from David Vasquez about a man who could be technically considered a scientist thousands of years before the conquest, but I forgot his name.
That's interesting if there is a real name to this story. But we all know that their must have been various scientific like activities relating to agriculture, architecture, medicine and astronomy back in the day. No doubt about it.

^Some of you up there spent some time wondering whether I was a Jew or not, as if it mattered to the topic of this thread. Instead of answering off-topic on this thread, I started a different one:
http://www.soychicano.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22563
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  #44  
Old 09-12-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_arriero
That's interesting if there is a real name to this story. But we all know that their must have been various scientific like activities relating to agriculture, architecture, medicine and astronomy back in the day. No doubt about it.
Of course, but no one give claim to things they invented back then. Claiming things is a white thing.

Here's a hero of mine and I guess if things change, he could sit in the table too. His name is David Vasquez. Posted articles here on soy:

http://www.soychicano.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12440

http://www.soychicano.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18318
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  #45  
Old 09-15-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

i would add lucio cabanas on there too... he fought in the mountains of Guerrero against the mexican army and local govt who was trying to force children in his rural community (where he taught) to buy expensive uniforms that the people couldnt afford.... he led a revolt... of course there were many other factors contributing to the combustion point of the revolt (like poverty and lack of drinkable water etc)... but yeah... i d definitely put him up there
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In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
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  #46  
Old 09-15-2006
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Sounds good.
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2009
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

bump
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  #48  
Old 01-12-2009
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

I got the book by Jose Antonio Burciaga
Drink Cultura

from what he said in the book apparently he wanted that painting when he was in college
so he made a poll for the people who influenced the Chicano movement.

I do agree do if it was going to be a Chicano Last Supper it should have been nothing but Chicanos/Mexicans/Indigenous
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  #49  
Old 01-13-2009
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

i dont have a list togather but think this man deserved his spot on the table but never gets heard of :

Dionicio Morales- ‘’ Latino civil rights leader and social entrepreneur. ‘’ Mr. Morales was founder of the Mexican American Opportunity Foundation(MOAF), the largest Hispanic nonprofit in the nation.(1) He spent his life fighting segregation and prejudice in the United States. His abilities to work with corporate and political leaders opened the doors and jobs for thousands of Latinos in the U.S. His personal relationship with President Lyndon Johnson allowed MOAF to win significant civil rights victories for Latinos.(2) His civil rights activism earned him recognition as “an urban Cesar Chavez” and social entrepreneur. He worked tirelessly inspiring several new generation of Mexican American business and political leaders as he pursued his vision of a U.S.A. where all Latinos have equal opportunities in education and the workplace.
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Old 01-13-2009
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Default Re: The Last Supper of Chicano Heroes

Luckily, there's a better image after technology has became more easier to access:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/...351fdc.jpg?v=0
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