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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.

"We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday afternoon.

Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."

He added that the report warns about the hazards that the chemical weapons could still pose to coalition troops in Iraq.

"The purity of the agents inside the munitions depends on many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential additives and environmental storage conditions. While agents degrade over time, chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal," Santorum read from the document.

"This says weapons have been discovered, more weapons exist and they state that Iraq was not a WMD-free zone, that there are continuing threats from the materials that are or may still be in Iraq," said Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

The weapons are thought to be manufactured before 1991 so they would not be proof of an ongoing WMD program in the 1990s. But they do show that Saddam Hussein was lying when he said all weapons had been destroyed, and it shows that years of on-again, off-again weapons inspections did not uncover these munitions.

Hoekstra said the report, completed in April but only declassified now, shows that "there is still a lot about Iraq that we don't fully understand."

Asked why the Bush administration, if it had known about the information since April or earlier, didn't advertise it, Hoekstra conjectured that the president has been forward-looking and concentrating on the development of a secure government in Iraq.

Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."

The official said the findings did raise questions about the years of weapons inspections that had not resulted in locating the fairly sizeable stash of chemical weapons. And he noted that it may say something about Hussein's intent and desire. The report does suggest that some of the weapons were likely put on the black market and may have been used outside Iraq.

He also said that the Defense Department statement shortly after the March 2003 invasion saying that "we had all known weapons facilities secured," has proven itself to be untrue.

"It turned out the whole country was an ammo dump," he said, adding that on more than one occasion, a conventional weapons site has been uncovered and chemical weapons have been discovered mixed within them.

Hoekstra and Santorum lamented that Americans were given the impression after a 16-month search conducted by the Iraq Survey Group that the evidence of continuing research and development of weapons of mass destruction was insignificant. But the National Ground Intelligence Center took up where the ISG left off when it completed its report in November 2004, and in the process of collecting intelligence for the purpose of force protection for soldiers and sailors still on the ground in Iraq, has shown that the weapons inspections were incomplete, they and others have said.

"We know it was there, in place, it just wasn't operative when inspectors got there after the war, but we know what the inspectors found from talking with the scientists in Iraq that it could have been cranked up immediately, and that's what Saddam had planned to do if the sanctions against Iraq had halted and they were certainly headed in that direction," said Fred Barnes, editor of The Weekly Standard and a FOX News contributor.

"It is significant. Perhaps, the administration just, they think they weathered the debate over WMD being found there immediately and don't want to return to it again because things are otherwise going better for them, and then, I think, there's mindless resistance to releasing any classified documents from Iraq," Barnes said.

The release of the declassified materials comes as the Senate debates Democratic proposals to create a timetable for U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq. The debate has had the effect of creating disunity among Democrats, a majority of whom shrunk Wednesday from an amendment proposed by Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts to have troops to be completely withdrawn from Iraq by the middle of next year.

At the same time, congressional Republicans have stayed highly united, rallying around a White House that has seen successes in the last couple weeks, first with the death of terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, then the completion of the formation of Iraq's Cabinet and then the announcement Tuesday that another key Al Qaeda in Iraq leader, "religious emir" Mansour Suleiman Mansour Khalifi al-Mashhadani, or Sheik Mansour, was also killed in a U.S. airstrike.

Santorum pointed out that during Wednesday's debate, several Senate Democrats said that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, a claim, he said, that the declassified document proves is untrue.

"This is an incredibly — in my mind — significant finding. The idea that, as my colleagues have repeatedly said in this debate on the other side of the aisle, that there are no weapons of mass destruction, is in fact false," he said.

As a result of this new information, under the aegis of his chairmanship, Hoekstra said he is going to ask for more reporting by the various intelligence agencies about weapons of mass destruction.

"We are working on the declassification of the report. We are going to do a thorough search of what additional reports exist in the intelligence community. And we are going to put additional pressure on the Department of Defense and the folks in Iraq to more fully pursue a complete investigation of what existed in Iraq before the war," Hoekstra said.

-click below to view document-
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/...classified.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I know, I know George Bush put them there, right? HA! As usual the Liberals in this country are on the wrong side of history and will not admit they were wrong. So lets see, no blood for oil and there were WMD's. Just think if we had left Iraq and let the Terrorist get these WMD's. Just think if we had not held Saddam to the 14 UN resolutions that the scared little European countries had no balls to enforce. Thank God we have a President that sees the future in a bigger broader spectrum of possibilities and has a better notion as to how the American people should be protected.

Anyone can read into this report and say "See it wasn't the ones they were looking for" bla, bla, bla, but a WMD is a WMD no matter how you use it. The terrorist there would have no problem dropping in the middle of down town LA at rush hour. Thank God we did not give up looking for them. Keep in mind just three 155mm rounds can kill up to 5,000 people in one concentrated area. That is to say on a calm day, not a windy day.
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Yup.........

This is what I read: Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Only pussies are afraid of "terrorists" and "WMD's".


I dont give that shit a second thought...
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolArrow
Only pussies are afraid of "terrorists" and "WMD's".


I dont give that shit a second thought...
Only stupid pussies don't give terrorists with or without WMD's a second though. That is why you are there and I, like thousands other military personnel are here. Your inability to understand the threat to our Chicano way of life is why there are mental and physical test to enter the military. Furthermore if you had any idea as to what you were saying you would not have said it. I can only assume you are on some sort of grifa or other harder drugs that are clearly clouding your thought process. You have to be a teenager.
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Old 06-22-2006
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Talking Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

I'm 28 yrs old and a wayyyyyyy more intelligent then you (and just manlier in general).

Have fun sleeping with those rubber sheets, you little bii..


Judging by your posts, those intelligence tests can be too stringent. lol
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Old 06-22-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolArrow
I'm 28 yrs old and a wayyyyyyy more intelligent then you (and just manlier in general).

Have fun sleeping with those rubber sheets, you little bii..


Judging by your posts, those intelligence tests can be too stringent. lol
As usual you never have anything educational to say or are you able to debate the facts. HA! If you are almost thirty then I guess it is true that drugs destroy the brain. As far as manlier I think you need to step away from the funny house mirror that makes you look different then what you really are. Intelligent doesn't always mean smarter overall. You are a functional idiot. HA!HA!HA!

"you little bii.." HA! LMFAO!! What a child you are Koolarrow. Go play cars and get you a lollypop. While I go do real man work. HA! LMMFAS!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapatasbloodjv
i like how cey picks and chooses what he claims is "liberal spin"


y isnt the whole article liberal garbage? it was written by the media right?
It came from FOX Some things no matter who rights it I question. There are aspects of the truth that come in reports and then there is Liberal spin. The fact that we found them is the fact of the story. The official’s comments on the downlow was an extra that was not part of the fact of the story (We found WMD’s) rather an addition to the story by the reporter. That is where the spin hits. Good point though. I don’t see all media as Liberal as you well know FOX and Radio have exposed the Liberal BS in the media.
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceyaotl
Your inability to understand the threat to our Chicano way of life
How would it be a threat to the Chicano way of life? We are a people within a nation. I always considered this nomadic. Nomadics aren't threaten when you have no country nor land.

There is no threat when weapons are unusable. It's like me going after you bc you have a broken gun and believe you'll be a threat bc you'll in a shooting rampage with it.
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
How would it be a threat to the Chicano way of life? We are a people within a nation. I always considered this nomadic. Nomadics aren't threaten when you have no country nor land.

Yeah, I laughed at "Our Chicano way of life". In fact, I'm still chuckling at that statement..lol
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaChavela
Yup.........

This is what I read: Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."
Okay so do you know what usable condition means? It means that the rounds were probably damaged so as not to be able to shoot through an arty peace and or the chemicals were probably deluded to an extent. Blister agent, and any other agent is still deadly none the less. If put in a dirty bomb the damage these chems can cause is horrible. I have been in many classes that shows what WMD's can do to the human body.

Now as far as it not being the post 91 WMD's that is neither here nor there. WMD's are WMD's. If this official was speaking on anonymity how do we know it was an official at all. Come on now with all the hype by the drive-by Liberal media I do not trust this so called offical's statement.

If the fact that old WMD's are not harmful then why do we as a nation take major steps to destroy them? Why is it in Pueblo during the Clinton Administration the locals did not want them destroying WMD's in their area? Would you go stand next to the trucks that ship these WMD's found in Iraq? I am sure our guys wore in MOPP level 4 to move this stuff. Why would they do that if it was harmless? Anyway like I said WMD's are WMD's. We found them and there are still more coming. This is just the begining.
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

i like how cey picks and chooses what he claims is "liberal spin"


y isnt the whole article liberal garbage? it was written by the media right?
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Still going on about the "Liberal" media?
What can I say, I get my news from The Daily Show on Comedy Central.
No matter what, Bush is still just a retarded cowboy. That's not criticism of his leadership, that's just how I percieve him as a human being. Immature? It certainly is, but then so is calling everything you don't agree with Liberal.
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by SERPENT13
Still going on about the "Liberal" media?
What can I say, I get my news from The Daily Show on Comedy Central.
No matter what, Bush is still just a retarded cowboy. That's not criticism of his leadership, that's just how I percieve him as a human being. Immature? It certainly is, but then so is calling everything you don't agree with Liberal.
"I get my news from The Daily Show on Comedy Central." I rest my case. No real idea on reality huh? I call liberal ideas and ideology liberal. It is what it is. I don't agree with the hard right on immigration but I don't call them Liberal. You are saying this above just for the sake of saying something.
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Now, wait a minute..........

So, this country has WMD BUT they were un-usable..........so whats so bad about that?
We have WMD and they are USABLE right now anytime........

And does this mean, we can go into any country that has these and destroy their country, loot their cities and deplete their natural resources?
Why dont we just go into India? Korea? Japan? or is it because Iraq had oil and thats the sole reason why we are there?
Oh maybe it was because of the terrorists???? But even that is in question.
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Old 06-22-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaChavela
Now, wait a minute..........

So, this country has WMD BUT they were un-usable..........so whats so bad about that?
We have WMD and they are USABLE right now anytime........

And does this mean, we can go into any country that has these and destroy their country, loot their cities and deplete their natural resources?
Why dont we just go into India? Korea? Japan? or is it because Iraq had oil and thats the sole reason why we are there?
Oh maybe it was because of the terrorists???? But even that is in question.
Yes we do have them. We are not Saddam and the UN has not said that we can not have them. Libya gave theirs to us right after we handed Saddam his ass. Doesn't that tell you that this one ex-terrorist state (crossing fingers) took us serious and now wants to be a part of the world economy again?

"And does this mean, we can go into any country that has these and destroy their country, loot their cities and deplete their natural resources?"

I hope you have evidence of this statement. This is a large accusation. You saying our Soldiers and Marines are looters and that we are not building schools and adding a modern infrastructure in Iraq and Afghanistan? I have yet to see our oil get any cheaper because we are in Iraq and I have seen nothing but good things coming out of Iraq other than the death and destruction caused by the terrorist. If they were not there we would not be there anymore nor would we have a reason to inflict collateral damage. We are in Japan and have been there since 1945. We are in South Korea and have been there since the 50's and India is a partner in the fight on terrorist. N Korea is a problem because Clinton Gave them the technology in the 90's because he trusted a pop belly, dog eating, dictator would not use it to build nukes. Yup that’s right he just took his word. His Juan Valdez on the bottom line. Now we are were we are today with Korea thanks to slik willie. The Saudis wanted to hand UBL to Clinton and he turned them down. Smart guy huh? I really take offence to you calling our service members looters and hope you are just not clear as to what you are saying. If you are then I think it only fare you show the proof that the Soldiers and Marines are looters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvfRCwk8edg

http://goodnewsfromthefront.com/arch...er_extends.php

http://goodnewsfromthefront.com/arch...415st_aims.php

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
Tried to find a fair and balanced article.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13480264

Two Republicans claim WMD found in Iraq

Santorum, Hoekstra cite sarin-laced shells produced before ’91 Gulf War

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 2 hours, 50 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Two Republicans lawmakers who insist Iraq may have had weapons of mass destruction are pointing to a newly declassified report.
The document says coalition forces have found 500 munitions in Iraq that contained degraded sarin or mustard nerve agents, produced before the 1991 Gulf War.
Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania and Rep. Peter Hoekstra of Michigan on Wednesday cited the report in an attempt to counter criticism by Democrats who say the decision to go to war was a mistake.

But defense officials said that the weapons were not considered likely to be dangerous because of their age. Pentagon officials told NBC News that the munitions are are the same kind of ordnance the U.S. military has been gathering up in Iraq for the past several years, and "not the WMD we were looking for when we went in this time."
Democrats say a report from the top U.S. weapons inspector contemplated that older munitions bearing traces of chemical agents would be found.

A leading Democrat on intelligence issues says that Santorum's assertion last night that there were in fact weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was politically motivated.

Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., says "it's a bit suspicious that this was rolled out the night before" the debate and vote in the Senate on withdrawal from Iraq "by a senator in a close political race."

Santorum is down 18 points in his Senate re-election contest, according to a poll released yesterday.

Harman says it's "unfortunate" that people have "not learned the lesson about hyping... and cherry picking" intelligence to suit their own aims.

For his part, Hoekstra, appearing before cameras on Thursday, reiterated his assertions of Wednesday evening, saying, "Iraq is NOT a WMD-free zone" and it "amazes me" that members of Congress still say that there was no WMD in Iraq.
The Associated Press and NBC News's Mike Viqueira contributed to this report.

Great article. WMD's pre 91 after 91. When you have Nerve agent that is only 40% as lethal remember only one mist droplet can kill an elephant, so now it will take a thimble full. How can you hype actual WMD’s? It is important to know they are there as any release of just one of those into the air can kill thousands. That is not hype that is fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolArrow
I'm still trying to figure out what "our" way of life is AND how it's being threatened.
Take another hit and relax dude, I got this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
I'm still trying to figure out how it would be threaten.

When Radical Muslims kill you family by blowing them up that is killing how we live. When they destroy your water supply that will kill thousands and thus reduce the Chicano population and thus hurt our way of life. If they use a car to blow up a school and our children are in there you tell me that won't mess up your way of life? The threat is real. I think maybe we need an attack in LA for it to seem really real to you. I mean why wait to let them do that?
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Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 06-26-2006 at 03:54 PM. Reason: You guys need to learn how to merge your post. I'm not your slave.
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Tried to find a fair and balanced article.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13480264

Two Republicans claim WMD found in Iraq

Santorum, Hoekstra cite sarin-laced shells produced before ’91 Gulf War

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 2 hours, 50 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Two Republicans lawmakers who insist Iraq may have had weapons of mass destruction are pointing to a newly declassified report.
The document says coalition forces have found 500 munitions in Iraq that contained degraded sarin or mustard nerve agents, produced before the 1991 Gulf War.
Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania and Rep. Peter Hoekstra of Michigan on Wednesday cited the report in an attempt to counter criticism by Democrats who say the decision to go to war was a mistake.

But defense officials said that the weapons were not considered likely to be dangerous because of their age. Pentagon officials told NBC News that the munitions are are the same kind of ordnance the U.S. military has been gathering up in Iraq for the past several years, and "not the WMD we were looking for when we went in this time."
Democrats say a report from the top U.S. weapons inspector contemplated that older munitions bearing traces of chemical agents would be found.

A leading Democrat on intelligence issues says that Santorum's assertion last night that there were in fact weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was politically motivated.

Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., says "it's a bit suspicious that this was rolled out the night before" the debate and vote in the Senate on withdrawal from Iraq "by a senator in a close political race."

Santorum is down 18 points in his Senate re-election contest, according to a poll released yesterday.

Harman says it's "unfortunate" that people have "not learned the lesson about hyping... and cherry picking" intelligence to suit their own aims.

For his part, Hoekstra, appearing before cameras on Thursday, reiterated his assertions of Wednesday evening, saying, "Iraq is NOT a WMD-free zone" and it "amazes me" that members of Congress still say that there was no WMD in Iraq.
The Associated Press and NBC News's Mike Viqueira contributed to this report.
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceyaotl
Great article. WMD's pre 91 after 91. When you have Nerve agent that is only 40% as lethal remember only one mist droplet can kill an elephant, so now it will take a thimble full. How can you hype actual WMD’s?
You do know if the weapons were made around 91, they would be 15 years. Would they make them obsolete? Just curious...
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Old 06-22-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
WASHINGTON - Two Republicans lawmakers who insist Iraq may have had weapons of mass destruction are pointing to a newly declassified report.
The document says coalition forces have found 500 munitions in Iraq that contained degraded sarin or mustard nerve agents, produced before the 1991 Gulf War.
Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania and Rep. Peter Hoekstra of Michigan on Wednesday cited the report in an attempt to counter criticism by Democrats who say the decision to go to war was a mistake.
It seems to me these two men cited this report out of sheer desperation. I doubt anyone will pay any real attention to this. It had me rolling my eyes as I was reading it.
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Old 06-23-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by girly
It seems to me these two men cited this report out of sheer desperation. I doubt anyone will pay any real attention to this. It had me rolling my eyes as I was reading it.
That is because you are not inclined to be excited about good news that proves George W. Bush as being right and the cut and run Liberal crowd to be wrong as they usually are. They are also on the wrong side of history again as always. WMD's are WMD's no matter how you slice it. They are right now still pulling more and more out of the sand. If you can not see the importance of this find then you are purposely covering your eyes. This thing is not going to die it is going into every media outlet again and again and will be held up as an example as to just how Saddam was hiding his WMD's. This is only the tip of the ice burg. Saddam lied not President Bush.

If these were no big deal why did he (Saddam) not give us and the UN these WMD’s to just get us off his back? He would have saved his regime from destruction. This man loved his power, do you think he didn’t give them up because he thought to himself, “oh, these aren’t any good they don’t need these.” HA! Hell no he didn’t turn them over because he knew damn well these could be used by someone and that was his intention. Now really can we afford to roll our eyes when WMD’s are found? I think not.
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Old 06-23-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Ceyaotl,

you still haven't answered my question. Are the weapons obsolete for being that old?
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Old 06-23-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceyaotl
No where on this continent do you see individuals claiming the Chicano banner. We are unique to the United States of America as a people and as a movement. If you have no country and are truly nomadic then burn your birth certificate and follow the herds and hunt and live off the land. That is nomadic my friend. Not even the Sioux or Apache live this way. You are very idealistic and that is fine but to an extent naïve as well. I have been member of an American Indian organization while in Fort Hood Texas that was a coalition of tribes and they are not as naive as this. They know they must adapt and are doing so daily.

“Weapons are unusable” is a relative term in this case. Unusable how? We don’t know that extent so thinking that there is just no way to use them as a weapon is not to be assumed at this time. Now the report from the individuals that found them did say they were still lethal. Thus lethal is lethal, you know deadly. The broken gun thing is not the same. Chemical can not be compared to a firearm. Those are nothing alike. If I have a canister of nerve agent and only the most inner portion is lethal than it is still lethal none the less. If I can not shoot it from an Arty peace then I can make into an IED or I can strap it to a car or I can take the contents and poor it in a water source. I can also put it in a small airplane and fly it into a stadium or compound full of people. A broken gun is just broken. Not the same thing at all.


http://images1.americanprogress.org/...od.320.240.mov


This is where it is right now. Sounds like this so called defense offical is nervous about this being a good thing for the President.
Nomadic people don't need a flag bc they do not a country to claim (why do you think many have American and Mexican flags together?). Here's a definition of nomad:

no·mad: n. 1. A member of a group of people who have no fixed home and move according to the seasons from place to place in search of food, water, and grazing land.
2. A person with no fixed residence who roams about; a wanderer.

Does this sound like many of our people or just mine? Our people are adaptable to anything, but that doesn't mean anything except they can adapt.

Funny thing about my birth certificate, I have lost it a long time ago, but yet can still cross the border as much as I please. Shows you how much national security on the border patrols are actually doing their job.

Isn't obsolete the same as "unusable"? If they're "unusable" then they're not WMD bc most countries have them? How long do they usually last until they're "unsable"? That's why I'm asking you. If you take offense on that, then I'm sorry for asking questions on stuff I assume you would know bc you're in the military.

You are gullible, my friend. I see things the way they are.
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  #21  
Old 06-23-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitude
the theories neo-cons stick to just amaze me... always a climate of fear

so saddam had some nerve gas.... it never bothered us before when we were doing business with him.... alot of countries we still do business with have stuff like this... IT IS NOT A PRETEXT FOR WAR.

After getting his ass kicked in the gulf war I seriously doubt he would be dumb enough to use it on us.... it was most likely for his usual in house fighting.


It is great to point at to scare ppl but it is all hype. If that is a reason to go to war we should be in world war three cause alot of countries have stuff like this and use in in their inner conlicts (sadly) but since we do business with them it is interesting how we don't scare up a bunch of drama over it to start an invasion.


Such blatant scare tactics to justify a costly war so a few on top can cash in big.... How ridiculous.
Pretext for war? That is funny. The fact of the matter was and still is that every Intel office in the free world had the same Intel. That is undeniable. The fact that Saddam still had WMD's we sold him and Technology from France and others countries that helped him to develop and deliver them was enough in and of itself.

Never underestimate a mad man, if he knows he got his ass kicked and is harboring that hate then it would stand to reason that a person with his ego and mental state could not be trusted with such weapons. Keep in mind not just the President said he had WMD's and was a threat to the US.


Make note of Hillary Rotten Clinton, Bill (slik willie) Clinton and John F.-ing Kerry, and John Rockefeller.

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998.

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998.

"(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983" -- National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998.

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002

"Saddam Hussein is not the only deranged dictator who is willing to deprive his people in order to acquire weapons of mass destruction." -- Jim Jeffords, October 8, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

"(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War." -- John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002

"Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States." -- Joe Lieberman, August, 2002

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration’s policy towards Iraq, I don’t think there can be any question about Saddam’s conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002

------------------------------------------------------------

I find it so funny that you are so easily influenced and yet talk about being so aware and educated. These Democrats are screaming inside their heads hating every minute of good news that comes out of this issue. That is the doom and gloom crowd. If thing’s go well for this country that is bad for them. If things go bad for this country then that is good for them Dems. Now that is sad, really, really sad. Your comic would do a better service if he gave the right perspective on the issue. As far as WWIII that is what I am talking about. You are not as informed as you claim to be, as we all know that the UN resolutions are why we really went to war. The WMD's were a major part of those resolutions and we (the coalition) upheld the UN resolutions because the UN didn't have the balls to do so. Not to mention it was in our best interest and who do you think would have been his first target with those WMD's?

Have a safer and more secure day knowing your President George W. Bush is running things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
Ceyaotl,

you still haven't answered my question. Are the weapons obsolete for being that old?
"How would it be a threat to the Chicano way of life? We are a people within a nation. I always considered this nomadic. Nomadics aren't threaten when you have no country nor land.

There is no threat when weapons are unusable. It's like me going after you bc you have a broken gun and believe you'll be a threat bc you'll in a shooting rampage with it."

Well nomadic is not what we are. We are American citizens and we are an intricate part of this counties culture and diversity. No where on this continent do you see individuals claiming the Chicano banner. We are unique to the United States of America as a people and as a movement. If you have no country and are truly nomadic then burn your birth certificate and follow the herds and hunt and live off the land. That is nomadic my friend. Not even the Sioux or Apache live this way. You are very idealistic and that is fine but to an extent naïve as well. I have been member of an American Indian organization while in Fort Hood Texas that was a coalition of tribes and they are not as naive as this. They know they must adapt and are doing so daily.

“Weapons are unusable” is a relative term in this case. Unusable how? We don’t know that extent so thinking that there is just no way to use them as a weapon is not to be assumed at this time. Now the report from the individuals that found them did say they were still lethal. Thus lethal is lethal, you know deadly. The broken gun thing is not the same. Chemical can not be compared to a firearm. Those are nothing alike. If I have a canister of nerve agent and only the most inner portion is lethal than it is still lethal none the less. If I can not shoot it from an Arty peace then I can make into an IED or I can strap it to a car or I can take the contents and poor it in a water source. I can also put it in a small airplane and fly it into a stadium or compound full of people. A broken gun is just broken. Not the same thing at all.


http://images1.americanprogress.org/...od.320.240.mov


This is where it is right now. Sounds like this so called defense offical is nervous about this being a good thing for the President.

All those Democrats up top that said Saddam had WMD's and said we should stop him froze when it came time to put their money where there mouth was. President Bush did not. He made the case and stuck to his guns and we are all safer today because he did.
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  #22  
Old 06-23-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Nice looking site.really appreciate for it and It is also useful for me.Thank you for sharing.
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Old 06-23-2006
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Default Re: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

Isn't obsolete the same as "unusable"?

No. I have an obsolete rifle that was issued by the government in the 1960's but it is still functional. It will still kill.

BTW I used the word Banner as a metaphor not literal. You contradict yourself by stating we don't need flags then refer to the American and Mexican flag, which I have both in my bar area of the house. Also just because border security sucks that doesn't make you a nomad. The fact that Raza comes here all the time to work does not make them nomads either. If they had a choice believe me they would stay put in Mexico with their families. Not trying to be any way but you are making your reallity what you want it to be. That is your thing and that is cool i guess.
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Old 06-25-2006
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Found an interesting article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMDs
Media coverage of WMD

In 2004 the Center for International and Security Studies at Maryland (CISSM) released a report ([19]) examining the media’s coverage of WMD issues during three separate periods: India’s nuclear weapons tests in May 1998; the US announcement of evidence of a North Korean nuclear weapons program in October 2002; and revelations about Iran's nuclear program in May 2003. The CISSM report notes that poor coverage resulted less from political bias among the media than from tired journalistic conventions. The report’s major findings were that:
  1. Most media outlets represented WMD as a monolithic menace, failing to adequately distinguish between weapons programs and actual weapons or to address the real differences among chemical, biological, nuclear, and radiological weapons.
  2. Most journalists accepted the Bush administration’s formulation of the “War on Terror” as a campaign against WMD, in contrast to coverage during the Clinton era, when many journalists made careful distinctions between acts of terrorism and the acquisition and use of WMD.
  3. Many stories stenographically reported the incumbent administration’s perspective on WMD, giving too little critical examination of the way officials framed the events, issues, threats, and policy options.
  4. Too few stories proffered alternative perspectives to official line, a problem exacerbated by the journalistic prioritizing of breaking-news stories and the “inverted pyramid” style of storytelling.
Retired military weapons, munitions, and training expert, SFC Red Thomas, attributes poor public understanding of weapons of mass destruction to the media and entertainment:
"Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the movies, or read in a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie." ([20]) Thomas explains the differences between different types of weapons considered to be WMD because of perceived ignorance among the media.
In a separate study published in 2005 ([21]), a group of researchers assessed the effects reports and retractions in the media had on people’s memory regarding the search for WMD in Iraq during the 2003 Iraq War. The study focused on populations in two coalition countries (Australia and USA) and one opposed to the war (Germany). Results showed that US citizens generally did not correct initial misconceptions regarding WMD, even following disconfirmation; Australian and German citizens were more responsive to retractions. Dependence on the initial source of information led to a substantial minority of Americans exhibiting false memory that WMD were indeed discovered, while they were not. This led to three conclusions:
  1. The repetition of tentative news stories, even if they are subsequently disconfirmed, can assist in the creation of false memories in a substantial proportion of people.
  2. Once information is published, its subsequent correction does not alter people's beliefs unless they are suspicious about the motives underlying the events the news stories are about.
  3. When people ignore corrections, they do so irrespective of how certain they are that the corrections occurred.
Even though WMD were found in Iraq at least one time (disclosed to the public June 21, 2006) in which more than 300 enriched forms of Mustard and Sarin gas were discovered to be in the hands of Saddam Hussein, a poll conducted between June and September of 2003 asked whether they thought WMD had been discovered in Iraq since the war ended. They were also asked which media sources they relied upon. Those who incorrectly believed WMD had been discovered were three times more likely to obtain their news primarily from Fox News than from PBS and NPR, and ten percent more likely to have obtained their news primarily from Fox News than CBS, Fox's runner-up.
Media source Respondents believing WMD had been found in Iraq since the war ended Fox 33% CBS 23% NBC 20% CNN 20% ABC 19% Print media 17% PBS-NPR 11% Based on a series of polls taken from June-September 2003. Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq War, PIPA, October 2, 2003.
Some people believe that Iraq moved their WMDs to neighbouring countries, notably Syria, before the war began. There are multiple reasons for suspicion, but no evidence of Iraq doing this.
However, recent State Department documents declassified in 2006 cite hundreds of weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq, but according to the Defense Department these were unusable, degraded, pre-1991 weapons. [2]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceyaotl
You contradict yourself by stating we don't need flags then refer to the American and Mexican flag, which I have both in my bar area of the house. Also just because border security sucks that doesn't make you a nomad. The fact that Raza comes here all the time to work does not make them nomads either. If they had a choice believe me they would stay put in Mexico with their families. Not trying to be any way but you are making your reallity what you want it to be. That is your thing and that is cool i guess.
People having two flags to try to define themselves so no, I'm not counterdicting myself.

Going from one side to another does not make me a nomad. Moving from one place to another without somewhere to call home makes me a nomad.
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