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Old 12-28-2005
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Default Searching For a Soul: MEXIKA IDENTITY

Searching For a Soul
by Jessica aka iakzazueta

In contemporary Mexico as well as areas of the U.S. inhabited by
Mexicans, people have been searching for an identity. Since the
advent of the Spanish invasion, the population once entirely
indigenous had been transformed into an environment with different
peoples: Indigenous, Creoles and Mestiizos. In response to such
demographic change a new national identity was formed. The Mexika
movement is the product of historical, political, and cultural
influences that claim to reinforce a Mexican-Indian rooted national
identity.

It is recorded among the surviving documents that Aztec
culture during and before the Spanish conquest, (The codex
Boturini,) that the Mexika were a self conscious people, which took
great pride explaining in full detail past events. This codex
contains Mexika history, which in turn also displays their
worldview, and creation stories. The Mexika believed their ancestral
home land was the place of White herons, Aztlan. In the year Ze-
Tekpatl (1064AD,) the Mexika departed south. They were in search of
a prophesized vision. Some of their people decided to settle down in
different places as others continued their journey. This is why the
Mexika claimed ancestry to other Native American communities.

The Mexika searched for the prophesized vision for many years,
and encountered many conflicts along the way. The prophesized
journey ended when they stumbled upon some islands on the lakes of
Texkoko, now known as Mexico City. As they settled on the islands,
the sun crossed Zenith and past directly over the land. The islands
became illuminated, thus the sign which indicated the Promised Land
was observed and recorded.

Metaphorically, this sign was expressed as an eagle (symbol of
the sun) sitting on a prickly pear cactus. The eagle has the symbol
of Atl Tlachinolli (water and fire) grasped by the beak,
representing a mandate being given. The prophesized land was called
Mexiko—Tenochtitlan. Mexico, meaning "the place of reeds" and
Tenochtitlan meaning "the location of the prickly pear cactus."

The Mexika nation grew by forming alliances as hired
mercenaries, and politically strategic marriages between their
leaders, and the daughters of the ruling class, which inhabited the
area prior to the "Mexika" arrival. Common people also intermarried.
The Mexika community came to form part of the Aztec civilization.
Each Aztec community had similar, yet distinct cultural identities.
Nonetheless, not all of Mexico formed part of the Aztec nation. Many
independent confederacies, which consisted of distinct languages and
cultures, existed in Mexico, such as: The Maya, Yoeme, P'urhèpecha,
Mixteco, Raramuri, Mayo, Tepewaw, Totonaco, and Otomi to name a few.

When Spain colonized Mexico in the 1500's they enforced
Spanish standards of value, and self-worth along with Catholicism.
Natives incorporated Christian elements into their cultures, whether
they converted in truth or not, Catholicism supposedly replaced
deities worshiped. Eventually, their religions were permanently
altered. In regards to present day, in attempts to reject the
consequences of colonization, many Mexika fail to acknowledge
traditions in the present day Mexico that reflect indigenous culture
because they are embedded with Christian elements. This complicated
matters in the colonial era, predominantly in the major cities, as
the oppression of political, cultural, religious, and economic
identities within Mexico would mold the social environment. Complex
terminology arose to designate ones racial background and ethnic
identity, "Indian" and then Spanish was most prevalent, followed by
the Mestizo. Indians were at the bottom of the social ladder, while
the Spanish or their "Creole" relatives remained in top.

The presidency dictatorship of Portiro Dias (1876-1910)
embodied the ideal of order and progress to make Mexico "civilized,"
such was a euphemism to displace Indigenous peoples and have the
perceived "Superior" European immigrate into the land. In reality he
represented disorder and poverty a by social inequality fueled by
ones racial-ethnic origin. Diaz created a regime known as the
Cientificos, a community of intellectual advisors on economic and
political matters. They applied the principles of Social Darwinism
to the indigenous population, viewed them as a hopeless obstacle to
progress and hoped that they would disappear soon. The Cientificos
hoped to achieve a new population through Mestizaje, to force the
native population into the national mainstream. The United States,
western and northern Europe and Argentina were the models.

Today, news from the EZLN showed many Mexicans support Indian
rights and understands the oppression and racism they live under.
The Mexika-movement including Danza Azteca and the Concheros respect
any indigenous cultures and feel a connection to them. In We Will
Rise, points out that Mexika's feel that:

The philosophy behind the mestizo is simple; it allows our
people to deny our indigenous blood by overemphasizing one part of
an otherwise insignificant biological mixture, the mestizo
therefore, can best be described as a divinized Native or perhaps
Hispanicize (whitened) Native is a better term. Even though
socially, culturally and biologically we remain Native people, we
have been duped into forfeiting our native heritage in exchange for
being recognized as white or at least part white. This is known as
internal colonization—the ongoing European conquest of our minds
and spirits. Most of our people have openly embraced the mestizo
idea of the point that many believe our Native culture is long
dead, forgotten relic of the past (Tlapoyawa 70).

As the national movement in Mexico took place, the proclaimed
resulted in alleged Aztec descendents forming the official Concheres
Corporation in 1922. According to legend the Concheros were a dance
group that started July twenty fifth, 1531. In 1521, the
missionaries outlawed the Aztec dance instruments and in 1525 the
Spaniards introduced string instruments with the road to the
creation of a string instrument armadillo-shell (Conchero) in 1531.
The dancers claimed to have seen a sign as they were in conflict
with the Spanish. Everyone immediately stopped and looked at the
vision and said "He is God." Many Conchero dancers blended
indigenous and Christian elements in their dance. In contrast Danza
Azteca-Mexika also claimed to have been practiced in secret, until
the nationalist movements of Christian influences infiltrated into
their dances. Rather then to claim homage to the Western god they
claimed homage to Ometotl (the force of life.) Danza-Azteca and
Danza Concheros have gained much popularity and have been practiced
nationality as well in the United States.

Therefore, the question that arises is: Why claim Mexica
identity? If you ask any claimed Mexika or Mexika group, many
different responses are given. There are many different perspectives
and layers to society. People look for a place within that.
Nonetheless, a common trend draws people to claim Mexican ancestry
because of a feeling of lost identity that resulted from their
history. Red Pedagogy states that:

This really exposes the perceived existential crisis of
identity as an actuality a crisis of power. Specifically, the power
to name, shape and control the products and conditions of ones life
and particularly ones labor. More specifically, I am to reveal how
the rancor of identity politics has not only deeply compromised the
power of American Indians to mediate the forces of colonialism and
global capitalism but also has dominant modes of education theory
have failed to construct models of identity that effectively
interrogate and disrupt the project of colonization (Grande 95).

The Mexika movement embraces indigenous roots especially by
claiming Aztec traditions. Yet, unlike other natives, the Mexika do
not have a specific community that acculturates their dances. For
the most part, dances are formed and learned by groups from
different places. They are spread and passed on by people who make
an effort to join together and learn Mexika culture and language,
which is based off of interpretations of the Aztec codexes.

Ironically, embracing and claiming Mexika identity serves as a
double edged sword. In one part, the movement embraces Indian
identity. On another note, it reflects the sense of false
nationalism that was illusionized by Vascancelos idea of the "Cosmic
race." Not all Mexicans are Mexika's and not all pertain to Mexika
ancestry. Other Indian cultures existed and survived the invasion
like the Maya or the P'urhèpecha. Although very commonly used in
many regions, there are other languages other then the Nahuatl, the
one pertaining to Mexika.

Continuing the relations to the Mexika in Mexico, Mexican
Americans identified with the Chicano movement. Mexicans have been
forced to adapt to different regimes like the Spanish genocide, the
Mexican nationality, and for those in the United States, the

U.S regime (forced assimilation).

It is important to understand that the Xicano movement was not
and is not a civil rights struggle. It is a struggle for national
liberation and self determination for our people. In fact, the
xikano movement is the exact opposite of a civil rights struggle,
as the focus of a civil right struggle is to become part of the
system—the xikano movement seeks to destroy it (Tlapoyawa 83).

The Chicano movement gave rise to a new identity many Mexican-
Americans related to. The Mexika home land, Aztlan, became a symbol
for Mexican liberation and power. It signified the return to their
native land. The Chicano movement sparked interest for Mexicans and
Mexican Americans to embrace Mexicanidad, "Everything which is
Mexican." Mexicanidad was a concept from Mexico to identify with a
generalized concept of Mexican-Indian roots. Chicanos were
interested in not only claiming past roots and histories,
furthermore, they opted also to reclaim territorial rights of the
land that once belonged to them. Mexika/Chicanos reinforced past
prophecies, such as the reclaiming the physical occupation of their
ancestral land. For the most part, Mexicans who found themselves
without a direct correlation to an Indian community claimed to be
Chicanos or Mexika. These were people who felt the need to be
identified with an ancestral past.

Another claim to Mexika roots is demonstrated through the
modern-day stereotypes or perception of the Indigenous people and
the glorification of their past. People often romanticize or glorify
the Mexika claiming that Indians from the past were better off
intact. Also, New Agers looking for an appealing new sense of
culture integrate Mexika ideologies and customs. However, many
people are drawn to its ethnics and spirituality.

As has been proven identity fluctuates and people who once
held an intimate relation with their creator and land were forced to
adapt to the invaders ways. The native peoples of the land were
forced to convert to European ideologies or die. As regions change,
identity, and culture reflect the changes. Everyone has different
perspectives. Each mind is a world of its own. Many people feel lost
not knowing what roots to claim. Aztec metaphoric ideology express
that everything is interconnected. In an ironic way, we are all
products of colonization. Everything that is around us reflects us,
is a part of us, and creates us. People need to find their place to
feel they have something to live by and die by. As the quest for
identity exist, maybe some will find enlightenment within it and
leave something of it to live. Nonetheless, all that matter is that
we are going to live how we can, so then we can die.

Work Cited

Danza Conchero: http://html.rincondelvago.com/concheros.html

Grande, Sandy: Red Pedagogy: Native American Social and Political
Thought. Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, INC. 2004.

Namala, Doris. History 157B: Indians Of Colonial Mexico. Course
Reader Material, University Of California, Los Angeles. Spring
2005.

Porfirio Diaz:

http://www.historicaltextarchive.com/sections.php?
op=viewarticle&artid=336

Tlapoyawa, Kurley. We Will Rise: Rebuilding The Mexikah Nation.
Published by Tlapoyawa and Trafford Publishing. Copyright 2000
Kurley Tlapoyawa. All rights reserved.

The codex Boturini.
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Old 12-28-2005
SuaveHighTimes
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Interesting Read.

However it is important to point out that though not everyone can claim to be Mexica, we are still all the same people. Regardless of the region from which you derive off, we are still of the same race.
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Old 12-28-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
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Default Re: Searching For a Soul: MEXIKA IDENTITY

Just want to make something crystal clear here:


There is only one "Mexica Movement"
a non-profit, 501c collective research and collective leadership organization.

http://www.mexica-movement.org


What this so-called "Mexika" movement referred to in the article is, I don't know. I don't know of any such organization with that particular spelling.




The official Mexica Movement based here in East Los Angeles
does not endorse other cliques and individuals who are self-proclaimed gurus based on some unconfirmed "oral tradition" and corrupted rituals (why is that Danza uses a MALINCHE and a CAPITAN and CONCHEROS?) that do nothing beyond exhibitionism and picture-posing to liberate our people.


The official Mexica Movement doesn't play with spelling things with a "k" and then feel self-satisfied that such minor cosmetic things actually liberate our people (especially when the codex books we research are not spelled with a "k", it can confuse our people.)


We don't listen to "revlutionary music" and then pretend that we actually did anything to change our condition. Anyone can listen to music, attend a gig, and buy a CD.
Even white people do that.


There is a battle raging for our continent.
We are not talking about "sweating" our way to liberation or
spelling our way to liberation or burning incense (even white people can do that).


The thing that the official Mexica Movement is committed to is
what all the other "Mexika" organizations dare not commit themselves to:

the long-hard work of COLLECTIVELY educating our people through Anahuac-centric research and the COLLECTIVE courage to confront the European colonizers who continue to tresppass on our continent and steal our wealth, thus impoverishing us.


Anyone can burn incense (even white people).
Anyone can claim oral tradition (even whites do this by claiming their grandmothers were Cherokee princesses).
Anyone can claim to be "an individual" (even whites do that).


But not "anyone" is willing to COLLECTIVELY liberate our people through research and confront the racism against us
and make the personal sacrifices to putting our peoples' education above our personal thrills in a sweatlodge or the temporary thrill of an "El Vuh" MP3.



This is why the L.A. Times Weekly called the Mexica Movement:

"The only organization that is willing to say what others dare not to."
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Old 12-28-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuaveHighTimes
Interesting Read.

However it is important to point out that though not everyone can claim to be Mexica, we are still all the same people. Regardless of the region from which you derive off, we are still of the same race.

Interesting point that we are the same race.
You are right.

We are the same Nican Tlaca race. (Indigenous People).



And actually, we can all claim Mexica.

* Just as all the 1.3 billion diverse people in China can claim to be Chinese while retaining their ethnic identities.


* Just as the Russian Jew and the Middle Eastern Jew can both claim to be Jews.


* Just as Sicilians and Rome-Italians can claim to be part of "Italia."


* Just as the Black Moroccan and the Black South African can both claim to be African.


* Just as the Chicano claims a name taken from the Mexica
(From "Mexica" came "Mechica-no" from which came "-chica-no.")


* Just as the modern Huichol and the modern Mayan claim to be "Mexican."






We already use the "Mexica" name whether we realize it or not.
(Mexico, Mexicano, Chicano, Mexican)




It's like this:

* Nican Tlaca Race
* Mexica Civilization
* Anahuac Nation
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Old 12-28-2005
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Thats what I meant. Regardless of whatever name you call yourself, we are still united by the type of people that we are. Indigenous People.
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Old 12-28-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuaveHighTimes


Thats what I meant. Regardless of whatever name you call yourself, we are still united by the type of people that we are. Indigenous People.

Oh ok. Well then I second that motion.


(And even the light-skinned among us are not accepted as white people by actual white people.)
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Old 12-28-2005
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A Mexicacentric ideology is just as bad as a Eurocentric one.

I find it rather hard to believe that the Incans would call themselves Mexica as well as the Mayans.

Should we not identify with the oldest civilization, The Olmec.
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Old 12-28-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
A Mexicacentric ideology is just as bad as a Eurocentric one.

Why?

Because it hurts White people's feelings to be left out?


Mexica is the vanguard culture which lives through us today
and is the most realistic chance we have at collective unity and liberation.



We alreay are "Mexica-centric" by using the names "Mexican", "Chicano" and "Mexicano."



Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
I find it rather hard to believe that the Incans would call themselves Mexica as well as the Mayans.
Read some history and you will see that the two continents had two cultural systems, so you are right, the Incan people should identify as Inca "Nican Tlaca" since that is the cultural basis of their people, their continent.


The Maya are already calling themselves "Mexicanos."
Theyre already calling themselves part of the Mexica nation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
Should we not identify with the oldest civilization, The Olmec.

We identify with all of our Anahuac civilizations.


We use Mexica because they were the last great civilization of our people.
(The Purepecha unfortunately surrended to the Spaniards without a fight.)


From Mexica civilization we get most of modern Mexican culture.
We need a realistic point of unity, and Mexica is that most realistic banner under which we can rally, while retiaining our regional variations.
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Old 12-28-2005
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Because not all of our blood line can be traced back to the Mexica or our culture. But all of our roots can be traced back to the Olmec.

I do not know any Mayans or any native for that matter that would identify themselves with a nationality such as Mexicano. They look at themselves as independent nations. Hunbatz Men is not going around calling himself Mexica for he is Mayan.

An no Mexica is not our last great hope of unification, but if thats what you have to believe to further your agenda cool.

If you truely did identify with all of Anahuac civilizations then you should call yourself Anahuacians, Anahuacites or [fill in name here].
By claiming Mexica you are just putting all the other tribes under you, but then I guess like the whiteman you want control and power.
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Old 12-28-2005
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I guess to say my point (I'll keep it short for those who do not like to read) is not everyone can trace their roots to Mexica, but almost all Mexicans (90% of us) can trace our roots to natives. European is less than that (70% of us can trace our roots to an European ancestor.). What are we more as a people? Native or European? You decide.

What we need is tribal alliances like I hear a lot of elders says. People confuse alliance with assimulation (no idea how) which are completely different.

Also, Choloman is correct on how many native groups do not call themselves Mexican.
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Old 12-28-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
Because not all of our blood line can be traced back to the Mexica or our culture. But all of our roots can be traced back to the Olmec.

I do not know any Mayans or any native for that matter that would identify themselves with a nationality such as Mexicano. They look at themselves as independent nations. Hunbatz Men is not going around calling himself Mexica for he is Mayan.

An no Mexica is not our last great hope of unification, but if thats what you have to believe to further your agenda cool.

If you truely did identify with all of Anahuac civilizations then you should call yourself Anahuacians, Anahuacites or [fill in name here].
By claiming Mexica you are just putting all the other tribes under you, but then I guess like the whiteman you want control and power.

Silly ch00lman,


the Mexica were already mixed with various bloodlines from Mexico's people!
LOL


It's interesting that you speak so authoritatively on this "Mexica boodlines" thing,
because you obviously don't understand what Mexica bloodlines are in the first place.


You've been watching too many Hollywood movies like "Dances With Wolves" and not studying enough of who the Mexica were comprised of.


The Mexica were already "mixed" with their own "Chichimeca" bloodlines,
the various Nahua bloodlines (Toltec, Culhua, Cholula, etc)
and extended all the way down to Guatemala, where those Mexica were futher mixed with the surrounding peoples!



Read some history!
The Mexica were already "mixed" with other bloodlines!


And who are you to say that we don't have Mexica bloodlines, anyway?
How do you know?




The Mexica are the best chance we have for unity.


P.S. "Anahuacians"? Which 'Lord of the Rings" movie did you get that from!?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
By claiming Mexica you are just putting all the other tribes under you, but then I guess like the whiteman you want control and power.

"Tribes"?

Do you call 100,000 people a tribe?
300,000 people is a tribe?

I call that a city.
I call that a kingdom.
I call that something bigger than a mere "tribe."


You're sounding just like a white man calling us "tribes"
when our history is majority is not tribal,
it is urban peoples with cities, large towns, and sedentary villages.
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Old 12-28-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anahuac_History
The Mexica are the best chance we have for unity.
You must have never heard of the Eagle and the Condor prophecy.
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Old 12-28-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anahuac_History
The Mexica are the best chance we have for unity.
You must have never heard of the Eagle and the Condor prophecy.


Can you please quote a source for that "prophecy"
which is not some unconfirmed "oral tradition?"



I have heard of this "prophecy"
but only on the Internet, funny huh?


I know, I know, it's a secret "oral tradition"
(why does it have to remain secret?)
passed from Cuahtemoc's lips to your ears.


Because you are sooooo special that you are some kind of Prophet Chosen One, right?



I know, I know, it's "something you won't find in no dumb book."


In the future, there will be a confederation of our Nican Tlaca peoples.
The Mexica Movement has been saying that before anyone was pushing this "Condor and Eagle" thing around
(and Ive been around a few years.)



A prophecy is only as good as the people who make it come true.
In its current form, it's just another form of corrupted oral tradition
(which was not the primary means of knowledge recording among most of our people.)

A lot of or people like the idea of prophecy because they feel that by association, having this secret "prophecy" makes them a Prophet.
It makes them feel special. It makes them feel like an initiate. It's all about how it makes them feel.


Prophecy and "MP3 false prophets" are currently making many of our people lazy.
They think they can just kick back and watch it all take place without having to do anything about it.
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Old 12-28-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
Hunbatz Men is not going around calling himself Mexica for he is Mayan.


You mean the SAME Hunbatz Men who is
training White People to become "Mayan Priests"?



http://www.mayamysteryschool.com/Wakah_Chan.htm





That Hunbatz Men?
Is that the authority figure you admire?



The same Hunbatz Men
who let's White people claim to be Mayans?



That's the Hunbatz Men you are citing as the judge of who can claim Mexica?
A man who let's Europeans claim to be "Mayan Skull Priest time keepers?"
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Old 12-28-2005
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Okkk...

I don't want to be rude, but with that attitude you have is the reason why your yahoo group was crap.

I'm no special prophect, no messiah, I have no special powers, I can't create miracles. I don't think I'm Mr. Big Shot and I'm not Mr. Know It All. I'm just a person teaching what I know.

Since you know the prophecy so well, I get to the basics. The Eagle and the Condor prophecy began back in the 80's when elders (forgot who) were deciding what to do. In 1992 (or was it 1996? I can't remember that much.) when the first Peace and Dignity Run Happened. It's about tribal unity. Who cares if it's not a true prophecy, but false prophecies help Christianity stay alive for almost 2000 years.
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  #16  
Old 12-28-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
I don't want to be rude, but with that attitude you have is the reason why your yahoo group was crap.

Well youre right about that Yahoo group turning to crap.
That's why I ended it.

It became nothing but a forum for Poser-Revolutionaries.
That's what pretty much all these online forums turn into.


Know it alls and do-nothings.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
Who cares if it's not a true prophecy, but false prophecies help Christianity stay alive for almost 2000 years.

We should care that's who.


Why should we trade in one fabrication for another?
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  #17  
Old 12-29-2005
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good post Tecpa.
dont sweat the busters.
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  #18  
Old 12-29-2005
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This was an excellant display of research, and effective explanation, transending two diferent nations, (U.S and Mexico) and bringing forth and accurate and clear discription, of history, culture, socio-settings and what not.
I commend the writer, she has blessed people with this paper.
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  #19  
Old 12-30-2005
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It came to my attention that certain premises used in this subject are directed in an attempt to discredit traditional Mexican Indigenous ways of life, also potential sources of vigor for people thriving to unshackle their souls from neo-colonialism

First and foremost, much like everything in this earth, nothing remains still in time, this is to say trees, riches, empires, nations, truces, and even knowledge, change, nothing remains as it was. It is foolish to believe that if I write a book, that it's information would be more credible than that of the information spoken. If I am inaccurate and a liar, and use hiperbole, then what good would the written information be? Whether written or spoken, it is only of use, to my intentions or the intentions of those who seek to use it's content for their benefit.

In regards to Mexican Indigenous I will let you all in on a little secret, We love our ancestors, and remain firm in OUR OWN PEOPLES NAMES, yet are united as MEXICANS, which is not (contrary to neo-mexika propagation) synonomous, with Mexica. Please learn the history of Mexico, take the time to research as the young lady who wrote the article, prior to further
spreading criollo-mestizo anti-indigenous ideology.


I am pleased to see that within contemporary Mexico and abroad many different groups are uniting and seeking to join forces in different manners, to help strengthen the fight against the neo-colonialism affecting Mexico. I will have to state a fraze shared with my by a dear friend which suites the occasion, (forgive me friend if I mispell in your language)
"¡De nican para tech quixtizque, xtopa tech mictizque!"
¡A toda madre!
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Old 12-30-2005
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When did I say I admired him? I used him as an example of one Mayan person that is known. I could easily have said Mayan people that I know don't claim Mexican Nationality.
The native way does not deny someone our knowledge because they are from another part of the world. You are not very native minded you are just like the European.

Quote:
It became nothing but a forum for Poser-Revolutionaries.
That's what pretty much all these online forums turn into.
Know it alls and do-nothings.
It hurts to look in the mirror doesn't it.
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  #21  
Old 12-30-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sipajpe
It came to my attention that certain premises used in this subject are directed in an attempt to discredit traditional Mexican Indigenous ways of life, also potential sources of vigor for people thriving to unshackle their souls from neo-colonialism

First and foremost, much like everything in this earth, nothing remains still in time, this is to say trees, riches, empires, nations, truces, and even knowledge, change, nothing remains as it was. It is foolish to believe that if I write a book, that it's information would be more credible than that of the information spoken. If I am inaccurate and a liar, and use hiperbole, then what good would the written information be? Whether written or spoken, it is only of use, to my intentions or the intentions of those who seek to use it's content for their benefit.

In regards to Mexican Indigenous I will let you all in on a little secret, We love our ancestors, and remain firm in OUR OWN PEOPLES NAMES, yet are united as MEXICANS, which is not (contrary to neo-mexika propagation) synonomous, with Mexica. Please learn the history of Mexico, take the time to research as the young lady who wrote the article, prior to further
spreading criollo-mestizo anti-indigenous ideology.


I am pleased to see that within contemporary Mexico and abroad many different groups are uniting and seeking to join forces in different manners, to help strengthen the fight against the neo-colonialism affecting Mexico. I will have to state a fraze shared with my by a dear friend which suites the occasion, (forgive me friend if I mispell in your language)
"¡De nican para tech quixtizque, xtopa tech mictizque!"
¡A toda madre!


The problem is:

Any 17 year old can get on the Internet and speak of trees and circles and copal
and then do absolutely nothing about liberating our people.


We have a lot of posers, and that's not good.
We don't have anyone calling them on it
and enforcing honor the way our warrior-class used to.


And when someone does call them on their honor-actions,'
they get their panties all in a bunch because they been exposed as do-nothing fakes.


Instead of warriors, we have a bunch of masturbators.
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Old 12-30-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ch0l0man
When did I say I admired him? I used him as an example of one Mayan person that is known. I could easily have said Mayan people that I know don't claim Mexican Nationality.
The native way does not deny someone our knowledge because they are from another part of the world. You are not very native minded you are just like the European.

Ah yes, Elder Ch00lman,


Teach us about this thing you call "The Native Way."

Speak about knowledge, but just make sure you do absolutely nothing about going out into our communities to spread it, ok?


We wouldn't want you to actually do anything about it!


But continue to speak from your authority as an Internet Elder.
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  #23  
Old 12-30-2005
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The problem is:

Any 17 year old can get on the Internet and speak of trees and circles and copal
and then do absolutely nothing about liberating our people.

At 17 years of age, you should be studying, this in effect will not only benefit yourself, but your particular commnity, this is if you choose to do something to benefit such.



We have a lot of posers, and that's not good.
We don't have anyone calling them on it
and enforcing honor the way our warrior-class used to.

Well how do you define posers? Who are the posers?


I see a lot of good coming out of the sector of urbanized youth, and assimilated-acculturated chicanos, mexicans etc... that attempt to reconnect with their particular people, yet despise the paternalistic view and stance taken by a few in any of these sectors.


_________________________________
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  #24  
Old 12-30-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sipajpe
Well how do you define posers? Who are the posers?


I see a lot of good coming out of the sector of urbanized youth, and assimilated-acculturated chicanos, mexicans etc... that attempt to reconnect with their particular people, yet despise the paternalistic view and stance taken by a few in any of these sectors.


I'm not talking about the people who are genuinely searching for knowledge.


I'm talking about the people who have gotten a hold of some genuine knowldge (or corrupted knowledge) and are doing nothing collective with it.


Let's define a Poser by his/her deeds (or lack thereof in most cases).
Examples of Poser-ness include:



- SMUGLY acting as an individual in the selfish Eurocentric way
(instead of collectively thinking and acting)



- Focusing on individual rituals like sweatlodge and burnng copal while ignoring collective warrior rituals like confronting racists and actively taking knowledge to our people.




- Doing exhibitionist and corrupted Danza rituals that use a Malinche and a Capitan (Cortes the Spaniard was "El Capitan") and concheros.
Using Christianity in Danza.
Dressing like a Las Vegas showgirl in a cheaply made outfit.
Posing for lots of pictures.
Posing for the audience with your posing behavior.




- Not understanding that 'Danza" was for warriors who earned it
(and not caring even of you do understand it.)

Not wondering why an 18 yr-olf kid named Cuauhtemoc became the Tlatoani of Tenochtitlan
(because he hadn't earned the right to participate in the "Feast of Huitziolpochtli" dance where the Spaniards killed our best warriors who were unarmed.)



- Using New Age and "Dances With Wolves" type of thinking that Euro-centrically stunts us from realizing our urban-scientific achievements.



- Wasting our time while talking in "Hollywood Indian" ways about generalized things like "circles, copal, spirituality," and of course the Euro-centric "do your own thing."



- Showing up to major protests only to dance for an audience.
Refusing to hand out fliers that educate our people.
Refusing to confront white racists with knowledge and courage.



- Not showing up to collective protests at all.



- Changing one's first name to a Nahuatl name
but then leaving one's last name as a Spaniard name and using the excuse "It's easier for me that way."




- Listening to so-called "Revolutionary music" in which the artists themselves do nothing revlutionary (except try to get laid) to liberate our people.



- Showing up to a music gig, hooking up with chicks, speaking in cliches, and pretending that makes you a revolutionary.
(Meanwhile, European colonization goes on as normal.)



- Changing the spelling of some Nahuatl words to have a "k" when it actually is such a minor cosmetic thing.
But believeing that makes you a real revolutionary.



- Wearing a t-shirt of "Che", an Argentine who never did anything for Mexico.
Refusing to wear a t-shirt of Emiliano Zapata, a man who actually did go to war for Mexicans.



- Using lame excuses like "I'm on my own path" when questioned why you are acting as a freelancer or do-nothing.



- Speaking like a New Ager : "spirituality, harmony, consciousness" used as buzzwords to pretend like you are some deep, spiritual person.



- Playing the "humble Indian" act when called on your Poser behavior.
Play the "I'm so humble, I must be better than you" routine just like "Dances With Wolves."




- Doing cosmetic things like tattoos, growing long hair and thinking that it's all cosmetic, since people will be fooled into thinking youre a real revolutionary without having to prove yourself through your actions.



- Promoting Carlos Castandea concepts which Castaneda even admitted were frauds before he died. (He was confronted on it by an researcher.)



- Saying things like "who cares if a prophecy isn't true."
Being okay with fraudulent information becauer it makes you feel good.






ad there are so many more...
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  #25  
Old 12-30-2005
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Damn, I am in agreement with much of what you stated.
Below I will adresss the issues which caught my attention. sale.

I'm not talking about the people who are genuinely searching for knowledge.


I'm talking about the people who have gotten a hold of some genuine knowldge (or corrupted knowledge) and are doing nothing collective with it.

I am in total agreement here, and aplaud any effort to expose fakes, and people portraying the "elder."


__________________________________________________








- Listening to so-called "Revolutionary music" in which the artists themselves do nothing revlutionary (except try to get laid) to liberate our people.

This is funny and I am in agreement.

- Showing up to a music gig, hooking up with chicks, speaking in cliches, and pretending that makes you a revolutionary.
(Meanwhile, European colonization goes on as normal.)

I am in agreement however, the getting laid part and picking up is only natural.





- Wearing a t-shirt of "Che", an Argentine who never did anything for Mexico.
Refusing to wear a t-shirt of Emiliano Zapata, a man who actually did go to war for Mexicans.


I coudln't have said it better, I NEVER understood the illogical approach to this, it's as if trends mean more than actual acts done by the people. In Mexico alone, we have a mountain full of people which dedicated their lives and even gave their lives for the people and communities of Mexico, yet find everyone worshiping a criollo CHE.


__________________________________________________ ___






- Promoting Carlos Castandea concepts which Castaneda even admitted were frauds before he died. (He was confronted on it by an researcher.)

JAJAJAJJAJAA, Do you have the link or the information on such?
I have nearly laguhed myself into a coma reading about people practing Casteñas b.s, and pretending to by Don Juan Matus.


thanks for the list.
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