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Old 01-19-2009
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Default Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

Maybe will hate me for what I am about to say, others will simply deny it. So as I am in the mood of creating controversy, here it goes:

What is fixation of the majority of the people here to be a Mexica?

Forget tribes, because I noticed few people here understand how a calpulli functiones in ancient times. Simply put, there were many nations, countries if you will, within Mexico and Central America. Even within a nation there were different groups, not to mention the difference between the elite and the commons. With this said... I still don't understand this fixation with the so-called Aztecs, because at least in Mexico and Central America, there were hundreds of nations, with thousands of different groups. The Mexica happened to be a group that was majority within a city called Tollan Mexico Tenochtitlan. So what's all the fuss to be Mexica, when odds are you might not. The only way you could be Mexica, will be if you were royal. Aside from that, there is a minimal percentage of you, dear reader, being a Mexica.

Thousands of groups, many of them different and interesting. I see no one trying to link their genealogy to the Chatino, the Mixe or the Pame. Here's just one example of what I am talking about... if your family or family background is from San Luis Potosi... odds are you are a Pame, and not a Mexica. By the way, the Pame were far more numerous than the Mexica, so odds are you dear reader, and probably me, are also at least linked to the Pame. There... just one example.

The other issue is that thing with last names. Why the linkage with Nahuatl, when still today there are dozens of languages? Statistically, odds are your ancestors were Otomangean (Otomi, Zapotec, Mixtec, etc). I know mine were. I descend from a family in a small nation or "kingdom" called Actopan.

At this point you might think I went well overhead, out of line, etcetera. The truth is I am abiding to one of the few things our ancestors cherished most, genealogy. If you read a Mixtec codex, it's basically a genealogy statement. If you read a Mayan stela, you will find genealogical information. If you read Chimalpahin, it's a sea of genealogical information. There are places within the Maya, that have found small things as hair combs to have infixed carvings of genealogical information. All their lives revolved around genealogy. Hell, even the Mexica considered good genealogy as a must. You can even find genealogical information about spiritual entities, like Huitzilopochtli. So don't get me wrong, but I am doing what any ancient genealogical would do. Hundreds of years of pains and hardships were overcome to compile hundreds of families into records. Sadly today only survives the royal genealogical records. But libraries were erected to keep genealogy of everyone.

Now, that some dude or dudette comes here with whatever idea he or she had about genealogy and the different historical processes that surrounded them... it's highly critical to put these under caution. You, dear reader, might be also wondering about me. By all accounts, that's you should be doing. What I can tell you is that I am an Anthropologist, and have been an avid researcher of all things Anahuac, not just a small island called Tenochtitlan. Take my credentials only to listen to me when I say... be critical! Question everything! Don't just eat whatever you hear! Not just question the History Channel, question these dudes that come here and there saying whatever they say. Go beyond by questioning the very primary sources.

One has to understand not only languages, peoples, and personal family history. Know you history! You think the Mexica are The guys to link up with... think again. The Tlaxcallan confederation was never conquered by the Mexica. Second, during the Spanish Conquest, the Mexica did nothing, because if you can remember they lost the war. It was the Tlaxcalteca who no only populated the country, but also founded new territories like today's Northeastern Mexico.

Just because your family comes from Mexico doesn't mean your a Mexica, like certain groups might say. I just want to let you know there was a vast array of nations and peoples in Mexico. If we understand this, we will notice that our indigenous ancestry is far greater and broader than we thought. Far richer and important than what Westerners want you to think.

In no matter I intended to insult or denigrate the Mexica Tenucha heritage and culture. History was written by them and by their neighbors. But bear in mind that we NEED to do JUSTICE to the rest of the Anahuaca peoples. No more centralization! No more ignoring of the others! Do you want to know about your ancestors? Or do you want to believe what you wish were your ancestors? If you didn't have parents, would you like to at least know about them, their names, their good things or bad things? Or would you like a fully detailed bio of any person you think might be your parent?

I support the awakening of the Anahuac, the renaissance of the maize people is coming. This is why I tell you this. You like it? Ok. You don't like it? Your problem. But as far as I am concerned I am honestly interested in you, dear reader, knowing your glorious indigenous ancestry. If you want to live in a fantasy world induced by Westerners, go ahead. But if not, battle for your right of knowing.
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Old 01-19-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

Quote:
Just because your family comes from Mexico doesn't mean your a Mexica, like certain groups might say. I just want to let you know there was a vast array of nations and peoples in Mexico. If we understand this, we will notice that our indigenous ancestry is far greater and broader than we thought. Far richer and important than what Westerners want you to think.
Good stuff.

All in all, i hear what your saying. When i was younger and just learnign i only knew of the Maya, the Mexica, the Toltec, and the Olmec. It wasnt til after high school i learned more then just those nations.

I dont know much from my dads side of the historical family. I know my grandpa's parents came across the border when he was still a baby. SO he doesnt really know much or remember. He does remember going back to Mexico at one point and time, but all he remembers is that he past Guadalajara. I wish i knew more, but even the family last name was changed when they came across and I know he doesnt remember the original. My grandma, i dont really know. I know for sure there is spanish blood in there, but not sure what else.

From my moms side i know my great grandma's parents were supposedly Mexica and Spanish, that her dad was new to Mexico and i guess met in Monterry, but still, not much else is known. My moms mom, she doesnt know much about, since she skipped out on them with her older sisters when she was young.

Either way, i would just love to know. I dont have to like the Spanish blood that is mixed in me and gives me some of my features, but it is not the only thing that compiles who i am. SO i have come to deal/live with it.
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Old 01-19-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TlacuiloPilo View Post
What is fixation of the majority of the people here to be a Mexica?
Peoples fixation is based on most not knowing their history, simple as that. Many don't care and others who do often don't know where to look.

Quote:
At this point you might think I went well overhead, out of line, etcetera. The truth is I am abiding to one of the few things our ancestors cherished most, genealogy.
Keep spitting that knowledge TP

Quote:
Take my credentials only to listen to me when I say... be critical! Question everything! Don't just eat whatever you hear! Not just question the History Channel, question these dudes that come here and there saying whatever they say. Go beyond by questioning the very primary sources.
True that. Family lore in many families favors having European ancestors (particularly Spanish & French) even if there is no evidence to support claims.
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Old 01-19-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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Originally Posted by Nelio View Post
Good stuff.

All in all, i hear what your saying. When i was younger and just learnign i only knew of the Maya, the Mexica, the Toltec, and the Olmec. It wasnt til after high school i learned more then just those nations.

I dont have to like the Spanish blood that is mixed in me and gives me some of my features, but it is not the only thing that compiles who i am. SO i have come to deal/live with it.
Hey thanks Nelio. Your last paragraph is part of what I'm saying. Denying our past, our ancestry, is denying ourselves. Again with my metaphor of our parents... if we didn't know our parents, and later we learn they were criminals or what have you, you still need to at least recognize that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Californio View Post
Peoples fixation is based on most not knowing their history, simple as that. Many don't care and others who do often don't know where to look.

Keep spitting that knowledge TP

True that. Family lore in many families favors having European ancestors (particularly Spanish & French) even if there is no evidence to support claims.
One of the things we always fight for is information. We all hate more disinformation than a blunt lie. That is why we have to inform us. I hear you on your last thing you mention, we all know people like that. So true.
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Old 01-19-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

You're right. It shouldn't only be about the Mexica but it is the last "civilization" on our land that we have good records of, the Spaniards did away with most every single piece of our Indigenous heritage, it was planned. Just like they did with the assimilation process here in the states.


Indigenous-Anahuacan slaves were taken everywhere. Even to the phillippines.. it is very difficult for some to track their ancestry because of the slave trade and how extensive it became throughout the conquest & colonization.

I've followed my heritage to an extent and from what I know,
I have Nahua heritage (Tlaxcala & Mexica), and the Teul peoples because from where my mother was from, it is documented that the Spaniards divided Indigenous people by Nation into these ghettos. (One person couldn't go visit another, etc.), this is a common story though..

they were even taken to the mines in these divisions.

I agree!
Whether it be Huichol, Raramuri, Otomi, Nahua, etc.

there's no doubt: We are one people, with the collective heritage of the previous care-takers of this western hemisphere.

.. I'll probably get burned for speaking on what I believe i'm sure, but we all have our beliefs.


good read by the way.

Quote:
Take my credentials only to listen to me when I say... be critical! Question everything! Don't just eat whatever you hear! Not just question the History Channel, question these dudes that come here and there saying whatever they say. Go beyond by questioning the very primary sources.
couldn't agree more.

We should all believe what feels right to us.

Last edited by ShyXicana08; 01-19-2009 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 01-20-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TlacuiloPilo View Post
Maybe will hate me for what I am about to say, others will simply deny it. So as I am in the mood of creating controversy, here it goes:

What is fixation of the majority of the people here to be a Mexica?

Forget tribes, because I noticed few people here understand how a calpulli functiones in ancient times. Simply put, there were many nations, countries if you will, within Mexico and Central America. Even within a nation there were different groups, not to mention the difference between the elite and the commons. With this said... I still don't understand this fixation with the so-called Aztecs, because at least in Mexico and Central America, there were hundreds of nations, with thousands of different groups. The Mexica happened to be a group that was majority within a city called Tollan Mexico Tenochtitlan. So what's all the fuss to be Mexica, when odds are you might not. The only way you could be Mexica, will be if you were royal. Aside from that, there is a minimal percentage of you, dear reader, being a Mexica.

Thousands of groups, many of them different and interesting. I see no one trying to link their genealogy to the Chatino, the Mixe or the Pame. Here's just one example of what I am talking about... if your family or family background is from San Luis Potosi... odds are you are a Pame, and not a Mexica. By the way, the Pame were far more numerous than the Mexica, so odds are you dear reader, and probably me, are also at least linked to the Pame. There... just one example.

The other issue is that thing with last names. Why the linkage with Nahuatl, when still today there are dozens of languages? Statistically, odds are your ancestors were Otomangean (Otomi, Zapotec, Mixtec, etc). I know mine were. I descend from a family in a small nation or "kingdom" called Actopan.

At this point you might think I went well overhead, out of line, etcetera. The truth is I am abiding to one of the few things our ancestors cherished most, genealogy. If you read a Mixtec codex, it's basically a genealogy statement. If you read a Mayan stela, you will find genealogical information. If you read Chimalpahin, it's a sea of genealogical information. There are places within the Maya, that have found small things as hair combs to have infixed carvings of genealogical information. All their lives revolved around genealogy. Hell, even the Mexica considered good genealogy as a must. You can even find genealogical information about spiritual entities, like Huitzilopochtli. So don't get me wrong, but I am doing what any ancient genealogical would do. Hundreds of years of pains and hardships were overcome to compile hundreds of families into records. Sadly today only survives the royal genealogical records. But libraries were erected to keep genealogy of everyone.

Now, that some dude or dudette comes here with whatever idea he or she had about genealogy and the different historical processes that surrounded them... it's highly critical to put these under caution. You, dear reader, might be also wondering about me. By all accounts, that's you should be doing. What I can tell you is that I am an Anthropologist, and have been an avid researcher of all things Anahuac, not just a small island called Tenochtitlan. Take my credentials only to listen to me when I say... be critical! Question everything! Don't just eat whatever you hear! Not just question the History Channel, question these dudes that come here and there saying whatever they say. Go beyond by questioning the very primary sources.

One has to understand not only languages, peoples, and personal family history. Know you history! You think the Mexica are The guys to link up with... think again. The Tlaxcallan confederation was never conquered by the Mexica. Second, during the Spanish Conquest, the Mexica did nothing, because if you can remember they lost the war. It was the Tlaxcalteca who no only populated the country, but also founded new territories like today's Northeastern Mexico.

Just because your family comes from Mexico doesn't mean your a Mexica, like certain groups might say. I just want to let you know there was a vast array of nations and peoples in Mexico. If we understand this, we will notice that our indigenous ancestry is far greater and broader than we thought. Far richer and important than what Westerners want you to think.

In no matter I intended to insult or denigrate the Mexica Tenucha heritage and culture. History was written by them and by their neighbors. But bear in mind that we NEED to do JUSTICE to the rest of the Anahuaca peoples. No more centralization! No more ignoring of the others! Do you want to know about your ancestors? Or do you want to believe what you wish were your ancestors? If you didn't have parents, would you like to at least know about them, their names, their good things or bad things? Or would you like a fully detailed bio of any person you think might be your parent?

I support the awakening of the Anahuac, the renaissance of the maize people is coming. This is why I tell you this. You like it? Ok. You don't like it? Your problem. But as far as I am concerned I am honestly interested in you, dear reader, knowing your glorious indigenous ancestry. If you want to live in a fantasy world induced by Westerners, go ahead. But if not, battle for your right of knowing.
Damn finally someone nails it. Great post.
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Old 01-20-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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Originally Posted by ShyXicana08 View Post
I have Nahua heritage (Tlaxcala & Mexica), and the Teul peoples because from where my mother was from, it is documented that the Spaniards divided Indigenous people by Nation into these ghettos. (One person couldn't go visit another, etc.), this is a common story though...
Dang. Where did this happen if you don't mind me asking?
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Old 01-20-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

I'm glad someone posted this. I didn't really want to talk about it until someone questioned it.

The reason I usually don't talk about it is I'm trying to get people to be proud of who they are and slowly they would go to research on their genes and figure the truth themselves.

Anyway, there are a few details you're missing in it:

A reason why we (as a people/nation) are fascinated with Mexica is they were the first Mexican Empire to fight the Spanish. In a way, it represents us fighting a modern society in which it shows us that we were independent from European influence and fought for that order of it.

After Mexican Independence, anything called Cortes or Tlaxcala was taken off and renamed. Then the Revolution happened and it brought Mexica propaganda from the Mexican government (PRI) about being Mexica and being proud. Then there was the Chicano movement and they were trying to figure out what direction the movement should go. Chicanos seeing Mexica dancers at Tijuana brought them to the US and well... the rest is history...

In the codices that Mixtec have genealogy, you're missing Codex Zouche-Nuttall.

On your info on San Luis Potosi, you forgot to mention that there was Tlaxcalteca (Tlaxcala) colonies there so a chance to have Tlaxcaltecan ancestry is possible.

And speaking of Tlaxcalteca here are locations which they had colonies in:

State:
*Zacatecas
*Durango
*Coahuila
*Nuevo Leon

Cities:
*Guadalupe, Nuevo Leon (use to be known as Nueva Tlaxcala de Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe de Horcasistas)
*Sabinas Hidalgo, Nuevo Leon (formally Santiago de las Sabinas)
*Colotlan, Jalisco (Villa de Nueva Tlaxcala de Quiahuistlan)

Beyond that, good piece.
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Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 01-20-2009 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 01-20-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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Originally Posted by El Californio View Post
Dang. Where did this happen if you don't mind me asking?
Quote:
"Porque los naturales que habitan las tierras de San Andrés de los Téul, han estado en quieta y pacifica posesión de ellas...". Luego, dos renglones adelante dice: "...ni que pueden tomar ni comprar solar en barrios de Tlaxcaltecas, que el repartimiento que se hiciere el de los Tlaxcaltecas, esto‚ de por si, y el de los Chichimecas, por consiguiente y señalen y llamen igualmente de modo que en todo tiempo para siempre, las tierras y pastos, montes, hasequias, ríos y salinas, cabras y molinos y otros genero de hacienda, están señalados sin que ningún tiempo, puedan unos indios entrar en pertenencia de otros."
http://www.e-local.gob.mx/work/templ...ios/32021a.htm

& like i've said, this happened everywhere.. Hitler studied conquest/colonization of Indigenous cultures as well, I wouldn't doubt it if the conquistadors' version of 'ghettos' is what influenced the reich's.


good read Tecpaocelotl, well said both of you.

Last edited by ShyXicana08; 01-20-2009 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 01-20-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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when odds are you might not.

People don't realize that over 90% of the Mexica died. There is a TINY TINY chance anyone from Mexico is the descendant of an Aztec.

Funny that no one questions you if you say you have Native Indian ancestors.. but if you say you have European ancestors.. you're questioned out the ass.
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Old 01-20-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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Funny that no one questions you if you say you have Native Indian ancestors.. but if you say you have European ancestors.. you're questioned out the ass.
Not exactly. It goes both ways.
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Old 01-20-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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Originally Posted by Cali
People don't realize that over 90% of the Mexica died. There is a TINY TINY chance anyone from Mexico is the descendant of an Aztec.
It is estimated that around 90% of all natives died between the beginning of the Conquest and 1600. However, you do realize that they started to repopulate around the mid 17th century, right?
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Old 01-20-2009
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Not exactly. It goes both ways.

Not in my experience it doesn't.


Quote:
It is estimated that around 90% of all natives died between the beginning of the Conquest and 1600. However, you do realize that they started to repopulate around the mid 17th century, right?
However, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people whom say they are descendants of the Aztecs. If what you say is true, that 90% of all Native Indians died after the conquest, and then 90% of the Mexica died, you're only proving my point further. That barely anyone is a descendant of the Aztecs.
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Old 01-20-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

Can you explain how, exactly, I am "proving your point further" ?
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Old 01-20-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

No, he can't.
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Old 01-20-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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Can you explain how, exactly, I am "proving your point further" ?
90% of all the indians died according to you. Over 90% of the Mexica also died. For example, if there were 20 million indians, and 90% of those died, that means 2 million survived total. Now I think there were around 1 million aztecs in total? 90% of that means 100,000 survived. What's the population of Mexico? It's around 110 million today. After the conquest, the indians were overwhelmed by the Spanish and to some extent Africans. You cannot tell me that these 100k people did some major repopulation in the length of 500 years. Therefore, only a very small percentage of the current Mexican population is of Mexica descent. Most are from other tribes.
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Old 01-21-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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Originally Posted by Cali
90% of all the indians died according to you. Over 90% of the Mexica also died. For example, if there were 20 million indians, and 90% of those died, that means 2 million survived total. Now I think there were around 1 million aztecs in total? 90% of that means 100,000 survived. What's the population of Mexico? It's around 110 million today. After the conquest, the indians were overwhelmed by the Spanish and to some extent Africans. You cannot tell me that these 100k people did some major repopulation in the length of 500 years. Therefore, only a very small percentage of the current Mexican population is of Mexica descent. Most are from other tribes.

1_If we take what Wikipedia calls the "consensus count", there were approximately 54million indigenous ppl in the Americas pre-Conquest (a rather small estimate. See 1491, new revelations of the Americas before Columbus by Charles C. Mann), of which around 25million in the Aztec empire. Now certainly not all were Mexica, but they certainly acounted for more than 4% of the empire's population.

2_By 1650, there were approximately, in the entire Spanish America, 700,000 "whites" (peninsulares and criollos), 700,000 Africans, 1 million mestizos and 5million Indians.
And yes, they did do "some major repopulation" from then on, as their bodies had developped the resistances to the viruses (it is estimated they started developping it around the 3rd generation post-conquest around 1560-70s) and the memory of the Conquest started to fade away: fecundity and natality rates finally picked up and the population started growing again, after roughly 150 years of decline.

3_Today in Mexico, Nahuatl speakers number approximately 2.5million, granted this doesn't take into account the vast numbers who lost the language. How many of those are descendants of the Mexica, I think it's fair to say no one knows.
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Old 01-21-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

lol
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Old 01-24-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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Originally Posted by ShyXicana08 View Post
You're right. It shouldn't only be about the Mexica but it is the last "civilization" on our land that we have good records of, the Spaniards did away with most every single piece of our Indigenous heritage, it was planned. Just like they did with the assimilation process here in the states.

.. I'll probably get burned for speaking on what I believe i'm sure, but we all have our beliefs.
Hey ShyXicana08... thanks for your interest and giving some family history there.

Well, the Mexica was not our last civilization, actually they and a couple of others were the few to be destroyed. Many nations survived well into the death of Cortes. The problem is that the rest of them were either assimilated or politically controlled. So in that note, I think we still have to analyze it more. Because what was the end of the world for the Mexica Tenuchcas, it wasn't for the Zapotecs. Actually many royals recieved land consideration at some point. Though it's a good line of thinking, but still has to be explored more.

And you shouldn't be burned for what you say. LOL. That's one thing I've noticed within this movement as a whole in the US, which does not happens in Mexico. All Chicanos in the US are very confrontational, and I think is normal for it's part of your fast-paced meritocratic society.

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Originally Posted by Unido View Post
Damn finally someone nails it. Great post.
Somebody should. LOL! You know, I love being the devil's advocate.

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Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl View Post
I'm glad someone posted this. I didn't really want to talk about it until someone questioned it.

The reason I usually don't talk about it is I'm trying to get people to be proud of who they are and slowly they would go to research on their genes and figure the truth themselves.

Anyway, there are a few details you're missing in it:

A reason why we (as a people/nation) are fascinated with Mexica is they were the first Mexican Empire to fight the Spanish. In a way, it represents us fighting a modern society in which it shows us that we were independent from European influence and fought for that order of it.

After Mexican Independence, anything called Cortes or Tlaxcala was taken off and renamed. Then the Revolution happened and it brought Mexica propaganda from the Mexican government (PRI) about being Mexica and being proud. Then there was the Chicano movement and they were trying to figure out what direction the movement should go. Chicanos seeing Mexica dancers at Tijuana brought them to the US and well... the rest is history...

In the codices that Mixtec have genealogy, you're missing Codex Zouche-Nuttall.

On your info on San Luis Potosi, you forgot to mention that there was Tlaxcalteca (Tlaxcala) colonies there so a chance to have Tlaxcaltecan ancestry is possible.

And speaking of Tlaxcalteca here are locations which they had colonies in:

State:
*Zacatecas
*Durango
*Coahuila
*Nuevo Leon

Cities:
*Guadalupe, Nuevo Leon (use to be known as Nueva Tlaxcala de Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe de Horcasistas)
*Sabinas Hidalgo, Nuevo Leon (formally Santiago de las Sabinas)
*Colotlan, Jalisco (Villa de Nueva Tlaxcala de Quiahuistlan)

Beyond that, good piece.
I am glad you took the time to analyze my writing, which I know you always do in with faith.

Though here are my considerations for what you establish.

The Mexica were not the first to fight the Spaniards. Now, I don't want to get into the whole "empire" argument, because it wasn't an empire, but we know Motecuhzomatzin Xocoyotzin was in a well-known process to become a super-super power in the known world by several reforms he did. But I don't want to get off topic, and let's just say they were a state, nation, or altepetl. Ok, with this in mind, the first to fight the Spaniards were the Mayans. One of their highrulers, Moch Couoh (it's written different in many sources) fought the Spaniards, and actually won battles at land and at sea. We all like Cuauhtemoctzin, I mean he is likeable and was a staunch fighter against the Spaniards, but the only Mexica to won against the Spaniards was tlahtoani Cuitlahuac. I believe, and this is my opinion, that it does count who faught them, but also who won battles! So we have to give credit to the Mayans of Yucatan for fighting the Spaniards. One of the reason the Spaniards ended up in Veracruz en route to Tollan Mexico Tenochtitlan, was because they had difficulties landing in the Yucatan peninsula. The second to fight were the Otomi under cover-up orders of Tlaxcallan. Small skirmish, but after all it counts. The Otomi were blamed, and Tlaxcaltecas took the Spaniards as a result as allies.

With you summary of Mexican history and influence of the Mexica, you're right on.

About tonindeye (known as Zouche-Nuttall to white scholars) ... I didn't mention especifically the six codices, and the dozens of lienzos that contain genealogy, because I didn't want to bore the kind reader with precise genealogical books of the Mixtecs/Zapotecs. This codex is actually my favorite. They're still discovering new genealogical information, especially in Oaxaca's sierra. People that for generations kept ancient maps. But again, I think that's for another exciting topic.

About Tlaxcaltecas, I believe I mentioned that Northeaster Mexico had a lot of tlaxcalteca genealogical influence. San Luis is in Northeastern Mexico. Actually on your list your missing Tamaulipas and Texas as well. Tlaxcaltecas were the population which they colonized, but the conquerors of the northeast were the Otomi, which also populated here and there. For the amazing story of the Otomi conquerors one can look for Conin (aka Fernando Tapia).
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Old 01-24-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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Originally Posted by TlacuiloPilo
Ok, with this in mind, the first to fight the Spaniards were the Mayans. One of their highrulers, Moch Couoh (it's written different in many sources) fought the Spaniards, and actually won battles at land and at sea
i like to know more bout these sea battles you speak of.
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Old 01-25-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

Mayans lost in the end.

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he arrival of the Spanish ushers in Old World diseases unknown among the Maya, including smallpox, influenza and measles. Within a century, 90 per cent of Mesoamerica's native populations will be killed off. 1519 Hernán Cortés begins exploring Yucatán. 1524 Cortés meets the Itzá people, the last of the Maya peoples to remain unconquered by the Spanish. The Spanish leave the Itzá alone until the seventeenth century. 1528 The Spanish under Francisco de Montejo begin their conquest of the northern Maya. The Maya fight back with surprising vigour, keeping the Spanish at bay for several years. 1541 The Spanish are finally able to subdue the Maya and put an end to Maya resistance.
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Old 01-25-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

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Mayans lost in the end.
Thanks Captain Obvious


to TlacuiloPilo or Tec
Wasn't Saltillo also founded by the Tlaxcalteca?
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Old 01-25-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TlacuiloPilo View Post
About tonindeye (known as Zouche-Nuttall to white scholars) ... I didn't mention especifically the six codices, and the dozens of lienzos that contain genealogy, because I didn't want to bore the kind reader with precise genealogical books of the Mixtecs/Zapotecs. This codex is actually my favorite. They're still discovering new genealogical information, especially in Oaxaca's sierra. People that for generations kept ancient maps. But again, I think that's for another exciting topic.
I don't think anyone would be bored if you reference them. If you did a paragraph on each codex, then that's a whole different story. LOL.

The last parts should be for a different new thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TlacuiloPilo View Post
About Tlaxcaltecas, I believe I mentioned that Northeaster Mexico had a lot of tlaxcalteca genealogical influence. San Luis is in Northeastern Mexico. Actually on your list your missing Tamaulipas and Texas as well. Tlaxcaltecas were the population which they colonized, but the conquerors of the northeast were the Otomi, which also populated here and there. For the amazing story of the Otomi conquerors one can look for Conin (aka Fernando Tapia).
Didn't know much of what you posted here.

I did know they went to the current United States southwest, but didn't know they settled there.

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to TlacuiloPilo or Tec
Wasn't Saltillo also founded by the Tlaxcalteca?
Where is that?
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  #24  
Old 01-25-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

Saltillo is in Coahuila.

damn, this is a great thread..

i'd also like to learn about the battles at sea.
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  #25  
Old 01-26-2009
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Default Re: Reflection of our genealogical fixation with the Mexica.

I was talking to my grandma earlier.. we were talking about our ancestry. According to her, the only known person in my family that was mostly indian is the mother of my grandfather.. but the man she married, my great grandpa, was basically a man of heavy European ancestry (light skin, light eyes). Everyone else from my family are mostly European light skinned people. Any indian ancestry would be difficult to trace. Now, I don't know where my great grand mother who is of mostly indian ancestry is from nor will I even make the claim that she is a Mexica. That's not even geographical possibility. I'm almost positive she's Huichol though.

The difficult thing about this is that there is no documentation for the indians. Unlike the European immigrants that came to the U.S which were documented and accounted for via Ellis Island.
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