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  #1  
Old 06-10-2008
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Default The Genographic Project

Heres one that is based on more of ancestors migration. A buddy of mine here at work did this and he was happy with the results of his ancestors. From my understanding it's not the "Family Tree" effect that some are looking for, but it's still cool to check out on ones ancestors.

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/...hic/index.html
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Old 06-10-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

Sounds interesting. I'm just not a fan of popular sciences migration theories.Some of what i have learned and been told conflicts with the western centric migration paradigm.
Wouldn't mind playing with it tho.

Quote:
For example, if you are of African descent, your results will show the initial movements of your ancestors on the African continent, but will not reflect most of the migrations that have occurred within the past 10,000 years.
hmm, i wonder why.
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Old 06-10-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

^^^ Yeah their are some questions about it. Although my buddy here at work got a lot more info than what he was expecting. I might play with this in the future just to ease my curiosity.
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Old 09-07-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

I honestly no clue what my exact ancestry's are.. I mean my grandmother on my dads has red hair, and I have a cousin who has sorta red hair. On my moms side, one of my uncles has blue eyes with dirty blonde hair and it doesn't look like my moms side "mixed" with any indians. On my grandpa's side his dad had blue eyes and his mother was I think pretty indian. I'd say 90% of my immediate family is light skinned. But then here I am.. light skin.. taller than the average Mexican male, with negroid features such as big lips and a wide(r) nose.
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Old 09-13-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
I honestly no clue what my exact ancestry's are.. I mean my grandmother on my dads has red hair, and I have a cousin who has sorta red hair. On my moms side, one of my uncles has blue eyes with dirty blonde hair and it doesn't look like my moms side "mixed" with any indians. On my grandpa's side his dad had blue eyes and his mother was I think pretty indian. I'd say 90% of my immediate family is light skinned. But then here I am.. light skin.. taller than the average Mexican male, with negroid features such as big lips and a wide(r) nose.
You probably have celtic blood mixed in with your family tree somwhere. That wasn't uncommon before the spaniards got here. EHP
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Old 09-13-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

The Gallego's in Spain are of Celtic ancestry. That's probably where it came from.
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  #7  
Old 09-13-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

I did the Y-DNA test from the genographic project (tracks the father's lineage) and I was marked as being E3b1b.

From Wikipedia:

E1b1b1b (E-M81); formerly E3b1b, E3b2
E1b1b: The most common Y haplogroup among North African Arabs and Berbers
E1b1b: The most common Y haplogroup among North African Arabs and Berbers

E1b1b1b (E-M81) is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in North Africa. It is thought to have originated in North Africa 5,600 years ago.[24][1] Colloquially referred to as the "Berber marker" for its prevalence among Mozabite, Moyen Atlas, Kabyle and other Amazigh groups, E-M81 is also quite common among North African Arab groups. It reaches frequencies of up to 80% in the Maghreb.

This haplogroup is also found in significant amounts in the Iberian Peninsula, Southern Italy and France[1], probably due to ancient migrations during the Islamic, Roman, and Carthaginian empires. This sub-clade of E1b1b has also been observed in 40% of Europeans in the Pasiegos from Cantabria.[1]

Individuals with the defining marker for this clade, M81, also test positive, in tests so far, for M183.

There are two recognized sub-clades, although at this time it seems that the majority of E-M81 is "E-M81*", meaning that they are not in any of the known sub-clades.

Sub Clades of E1b1b1b (E-M81):

* E1b1b1b1 (E-M107).
* E1b1b1b2 (E-M165). Also shows M183.

The info given from the genographic site, like said before, won't give you any percentage results, just the haplogroup where you are most likely to come from. It more or less gives the migration of your ancestors but not as much as one might think. Still, it was interesting and I might soon do the mt-DNA (mother's lineage) test.
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Old 09-13-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

Where did you get that test done?
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Old 09-13-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

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Originally Posted by Californio View Post
Where did you get that test done?
You order a DNA test kit from the link given above. It costs roughly 107 bucks and it takes around 6 weeks for the test to be done.
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Old 09-13-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

Oh lol didn't see that
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  #11  
Old 09-17-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by QMX View Post
Sounds interesting. I'm just not a fan of popular sciences migration theories.Some of what i have learned and been told conflicts with the western centric migration paradigm.
Wouldn't mind playing with it tho.



hmm, i wonder why.
I totally agree. They only take into account certain migration paths. As an Anthropologist I can tell you there is an infinite number of paths to be taken, and hence an infinite number of things overlooked. Scholars are still making tests about genetic procedence between Mayan and Teotihuacan sites, how can these National Geographic people lay claim in showing one's genetic migratory route. But, for certain people this is actually a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Hijo Perdido View Post
You probably have celtic blood mixed in with your family tree somwhere. That wasn't uncommon before the spaniards got here. EHP
What's with the Celtic blood? It was actually uncommon, mainly because celtics were gone or reduced to certain places in the Cantabrico, but still they were descendants of the Celtics. The peoples that came to Mexico were primarily NOT from Northern Spain (i.e. el Cantabrico or Galicia). There was even a saying during the Spanish conquest "oh how we were not conquered by the northerners" implying the direct and omniprescent participation (militarily and genetically) of central and southern Spaniards, who were not Celtics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Californio View Post
The Gallego's in Spain are of Celtic ancestry. That's probably where it came from.
Even when some Gallegos descend from Celtic people, that doesn't mean they ought to be of Celtic ancestry. Galicia, for instance has Visigothic influence, as well as of local indigenous tribes like the Suevs. Let's not forget the Romans for god sakes! And finally the bulk of Gallegos and northern Spaniards, the Germanic tribes (I include again the Visigoths), and in the case of nobility, the Bizantines and Moors (sorry, but that's that).
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  #12  
Old 09-19-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperKinetic View Post
I did the Y-DNA test from the genographic project (tracks the father's lineage) and I was marked as being E3b1b.

From Wikipedia:

E1b1b1b (E-M81); formerly E3b1b, E3b2
E1b1b: The most common Y haplogroup among North African Arabs and Berbers
E1b1b: The most common Y haplogroup among North African Arabs and Berbers

E1b1b1b (E-M81) is the most common Y chromosome haplogroup in North Africa. It is thought to have originated in North Africa 5,600 years ago.[24][1] Colloquially referred to as the "Berber marker" for its prevalence among Mozabite, Moyen Atlas, Kabyle and other Amazigh groups, E-M81 is also quite common among North African Arab groups. It reaches frequencies of up to 80% in the Maghreb.

This haplogroup is also found in significant amounts in the Iberian Peninsula, Southern Italy and France[1], probably due to ancient migrations during the Islamic, Roman, and Carthaginian empires. This sub-clade of E1b1b has also been observed in 40% of Europeans in the Pasiegos from Cantabria.[1]

Individuals with the defining marker for this clade, M81, also test positive, in tests so far, for M183.

There are two recognized sub-clades, although at this time it seems that the majority of E-M81 is "E-M81*", meaning that they are not in any of the known sub-clades.

Sub Clades of E1b1b1b (E-M81):

* E1b1b1b1 (E-M107).
* E1b1b1b2 (E-M165). Also shows M183.

The info given from the genographic site, like said before, won't give you any percentage results, just the haplogroup where you are most likely to come from. It more or less gives the migration of your ancestors but not as much as one might think. Still, it was interesting and I might soon do the mt-DNA (mother's lineage) test.
My haplo group came out originally as Q3 and then I had what they called a deep SnpQ test to determine it a bit further. Subsequently they changed the group classification from Q3 to Q1A3. I got mine done at www.familytreedna.com and there is also www.tracegenetics.com as well.

EHP

Quote:
Originally Posted by TlacuiloPilo View Post
I totally agree. They only take into account certain migration paths. As an Anthropologist I can tell you there is an infinite number of paths to be taken, and hence an infinite number of things overlooked. Scholars are still making tests about genetic procedence between Mayan and Teotihuacan sites, how can these National Geographic people lay claim in showing one's genetic migratory route. But, for certain people this is actually a good thing.



What's with the Celtic blood? It was actually uncommon, mainly because celtics were gone or reduced to certain places in the Cantabrico, but still they were descendants of the Celtics. The peoples that came to Mexico were primarily NOT from Northern Spain (i.e. el Cantabrico or Galicia). There was even a saying during the Spanish conquest "oh how we were not conquered by the northerners" implying the direct and omniprescent participation (militarily and genetically) of central and southern Spaniards, who were not Celtics.



Even when some Gallegos descend from Celtic people, that doesn't mean they ought to be of Celtic ancestry. Galicia, for instance has Visigothic influence, as well as of local indigenous tribes like the Suevs. Let's not forget the Romans for god sakes! And finally the bulk of Gallegos and northern Spaniards, the Germanic tribes (I include again the Visigoths), and in the case of nobility, the Bizantines and Moors (sorry, but that's that).

The Spaniards did indeed mix with the celts, but then again I wasn't excluding the germanic tribes and the visagoths etc I just had failed to mention them. But they are definite contributors to some of the lighter complected spanish speaking peoples today.

EHP
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2008
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Default Re: The Genographic Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Hijo Perdido View Post
The Spaniards did indeed mix with the celts, but then again I wasn't excluding the germanic tribes and the visagoths etc I just had failed to mention them. But they are definite contributors to some of the lighter complected spanish speaking peoples today.

EHP
Yes and no. I hope I will not confuse you, but the only way to imagine it is as if all regions in Spain were different "nations". Spaniards didn't mix with Celtics (and I do know I may sound contradicting my previous post), but the ones from have links to the ancient (and I stress the word ancient in all possible ways) are the northerners in Spain, especially Galicia, Asturias, and Pais Vasco. These three, along with other regions in France (Normandy, Brittany) and Great Britain (Ireland, Isle of Man, Scotland) call themselves today the "Celtic Nations". Scientifically that's correct, and heck, they even sell T-shirts that say "Naciones Celtas" with the flags of each "nation". Yes, Galicia is included.

But I do wanted to explain this further, because I feel many of us (naturally) view Spaniards or Spain as a whole. Just as Americans (including Chicanos) see one Mexico and one kind of Mexicans.

About the lighter tone of skin issue... I know, again, I will dissapoint many, but that genetic trait (in Spain) comes from the Germanic tribes (all of them). I don't rule out Roman noble genes that ran along the eastern coast (i.e. Spanish emperors of Rome that in their statues look more caucasian tha even Russel Crowe). The biggest and latest germanic tribe were the Visigoths. And even they intermarried with Byzantine, Amals, Ostrogoths, Franks (mainly Merovingians historically speaking), and other minor germanic tribes that established themselves in other than the northern territory of Spain.

Has anyone seen a Celtic person? Nobody, no realistic images survive of these peoples. It is interesting that in the self-proclaimed "Celtic Nations", the blonder type of people abund in Northern Spain. But in that case, who knows. All I can tell you is the genetic pool that is abundant, and quite famous, in Northern Spain.

There is one final problem, and that is that Northern Spaniards, especially from Galicia and Asturias, have genetic traits of intermarriage between Homo Sapiens (Modern Humans) and Neanderthals (Indigenous human species of Europe). About this issue I was personally informed by specialized dentists (you know these guys are the ones that can identify you in an accident only with your tooth). Some information does exist in mainstream Academia. Actually National Geographic or Discovery (I can't remember) did a documentary kind of thing following a Neanderthal group until they intermarried in Northern Spain, and didn't say it, but gave way to us to think a new kind of subspecies was created there.

This is just a piece of information that proofs not all Spaniards are the same, even genetically speaking. Now, as a reminder, these northern peoples did not came to Mexico during the Conquest, and came during the New Spain in VERY LIMITED NUMBERS. It was until the Spanish Civil War in the 20th Century that they flee into Argentina (mainly) and Mexico.
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  #14  
Old 09-22-2008
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Originally Posted by TlacuiloPilo View Post
Yes and no. I hope I will not confuse you, but the only way to imagine it is as if all regions in Spain were different "nations". Spaniards didn't mix with Celtics (and I do know I may sound contradicting my previous post), but the ones from have links to the ancient (and I stress the word ancient in all possible ways) are the northerners in Spain, especially Galicia, Asturias, and Pais Vasco. These three, along with other regions in France (Normandy, Brittany) and Great Britain (Ireland, Isle of Man, Scotland) call themselves today the "Celtic Nations". Scientifically that's correct, and heck, they even sell T-shirts that say "Naciones Celtas" with the flags of each "nation". Yes, Galicia is included.

But I do wanted to explain this further, because I feel many of us (naturally) view Spaniards or Spain as a whole. Just as Americans (including Chicanos) see one Mexico and one kind of Mexicans.

About the lighter tone of skin issue... I know, again, I will dissapoint many, but that genetic trait (in Spain) comes from the Germanic tribes (all of them). I don't rule out Roman noble genes that ran along the eastern coast (i.e. Spanish emperors of Rome that in their statues look more caucasian tha even Russel Crowe). The biggest and latest germanic tribe were the Visigoths. And even they intermarried with Byzantine, Amals, Ostrogoths, Franks (mainly Merovingians historically speaking), and other minor germanic tribes that established themselves in other than the northern territory of Spain.

Has anyone seen a Celtic person? Nobody, no realistic images survive of these peoples. It is interesting that in the self-proclaimed "Celtic Nations", the blonder type of people abund in Northern Spain. But in that case, who knows. All I can tell you is the genetic pool that is abundant, and quite famous, in Northern Spain.

There is one final problem, and that is that Northern Spaniards, especially from Galicia and Asturias, have genetic traits of intermarriage between Homo Sapiens (Modern Humans) and Neanderthals (Indigenous human species of Europe). About this issue I was personally informed by specialized dentists (you know these guys are the ones that can identify you in an accident only with your tooth). Some information does exist in mainstream Academia. Actually National Geographic or Discovery (I can't remember) did a documentary kind of thing following a Neanderthal group until they intermarried in Northern Spain, and didn't say it, but gave way to us to think a new kind of subspecies was created there.

This is just a piece of information that proofs not all Spaniards are the same, even genetically speaking. Now, as a reminder, these northern peoples did not came to Mexico during the Conquest, and came during the New Spain in VERY LIMITED NUMBERS. It was until the Spanish Civil War in the 20th Century that they flee into Argentina (mainly) and Mexico.
While it is thought by certain scientists that Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens interbred, this theory has been losing credence in the face of genetic evidence that says otherwise.

Now, putting that aside, I'd like to relate to you all my personal experience after having found out my own results...

So as I've said before my father's lineage turned up a significant amount of North-African heritage, (possibly confirming family rumors of Sephardic Jewish blood) but my reaction was one of confusion and a bit of disappointment even.

Given that one's identity as a Mexican is largely that of the Mestizo, I was pretty much self-assured that this test would turn up Native American ancestry (but then again, the test is not one of percentages). Imagine since that is my self-image, I largely saw it as shock to my personal identity. But given that on both sides of my family there is little to lead to "Indian" ancestry (somewhat recent arrival in Mexico, settlement concentrating in the northern area, where mixture with native blood was rare, and now the genetic test results) I might have to adjust my ideas on what my ancestral lineage is.

I still want to take further tests, but the expense and the anxiousness about the possible results are keeping me from taking any more.

So now I'm left with the question of whether I'm "mas moreno por moro que por indio"?

Anyone have any thoughts on my story?
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