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  #26  
Old 07-16-2013
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No its not. 35 year old me beats the shit out of 17 yr old me.
That doesn't mean that a 17 year old Martin didn't overwhelm a 35 year old Zimmerman.

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if you follow someone against the advice of law enforcement, you should forfeit any right to claim "self defense".
Advice is not the same as a command or even an instruction. Advice is basically a suggestion.

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And whats "against the law" or not, is not how humans get their morals and ethics. Thats for shady ass lawyers.
Rule of law is also a large part of the morality of democratic people, whether we're talking about the US, India, or wherever. Once you get into the realm of vigilante justice, it's only a matter of time until you get situations like Mexico where illegal organizations run things. Where we forfeit rules for emotions, we come to a slippery slope where the only most vicious of people are able to keep things in order and people in line.

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I would laugh, but I assume you're being serious. "Race" is not an exact science. You pretty much just get treated as whatever you look like. What African American doesnt have some "white" ancestry? Probably none, but we don't think of the NBA as a bunch of white guys running around playing basketball. That's just retarded.
Does Zimmerman look white to you?

Last edited by xicanachick; 07-16-2013 at 10:41 PM. Reason: Consecutive Posts. Use the edit feature.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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Does Zimmerman look white to you?
No.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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Originally Posted by masaru
17 is around the physically prime for a young man. One more year and Martin would have been fit for military service. Or maybe Zimmerman was a wimp - but that's not the same as breaking the law or being a racist.
Just because he would have fit for military service, doesn't mean he was ready for it. Thats why they go through boot camp to MAKE them ready.

Despite that, i don't think profiling is so much the same as being racist. But he did profile the kid. And while 911 ops aren't the last give all on authority they had valid advice. Its like the bartender telling you that you shouldn't have one more drink, but you do anyway some how some way, but they get blamed when you wreck and kill someone, or crash into the river and drown.

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Originally Posted by masaru
Rule of law is also a large part of the morality of democratic people, whether we're talking about the US, India, or wherever. Once you get into the realm of vigilante justice, it's only a matter of time until you get situations like Mexico where illegal organizations run things. Where we forfeit rules for emotions, we come to a slippery slope where the only most vicious of people are able to keep things in order and people in line.
Vigilante justice you say? Isn't that what Zimmerman was kind of trying to do by confronting the boy?
And what if someone molested a kin of yours and everyone knew they did it, but by some fluke in the law they got off, would you not want vigilante justice?
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Old 07-16-2013
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Just because he would have fit for military service, doesn't mean he was ready for it. Thats why they go through boot camp to MAKE them ready.

Despite that, i don't think profiling is so much the same as being racist. But he did profile the kid. And while 911 ops aren't the last give all on authority they had valid advice. Its like the bartender telling you that you shouldn't have one more drink, but you do anyway some how some way, but they get blamed when you wreck and kill someone, or crash into the river and drown.


Vigilante justice you say? Isn't that what Zimmerman was kind of trying to do by confronting the boy?
And what if someone molested a kin of yours and everyone knew they did it, but by some fluke in the law they got off, would you not want vigilante justice?
that reminds me of that story a few years ago where that guy died getting fucked by a horse. And the prosecution was kind of stumped becasue there was no law on the books, saying you couldnt fucka horse. Had he lived, I could just imagine the guy going out in public and people saying 'hey arent you the horse fucker' and his rebuttal'comeon guys, it aint illegal. Whats the problem'

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Does Zimmerman look white to you?
my post was in reference to your absurd statement that Trayvon may be just as biologically 'white' as Zimmerman. I don't know if you're being obtuse intentionally or not.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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You have a facebook?
yes, but I only use it for family members to keep in touch with me. I used to accept friends from high school and soy members (which pretty much means anybody), but now its just about 40 people who are siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. And some pages about tiny houses and shit.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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Vigilante justice you say? Isn't that what Zimmerman was kind of trying to do by confronting the boy?
It actually is. The thing about the whole issue is that, in the state of Florida, Zimmerman was within his rights to defend himself with lethal force once a verbal confrontation turned into him being physically attacked. Does that law make it easier for things like this to happen? Maybe, but that isn't Zimmerman's fault.

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And what if someone molested a kin of yours and everyone knew they did it, but by some fluke in the law they got off, would you not want vigilante justice?
I don't know of any loopholes that defend pedophiles or even rapists, excepting assaults that happen within prison settings. If everyone knows it, then they should come forward. If even convicted homocidal psychopaths find pedophiles abhorrent, it seems unlikely that a child molestation is going to stand. Frankly, I don't know what I would do, but I do know I wouldn't make it into a race issue if it wasn't.

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that reminds me of that story a few years ago where that guy died getting fucked by a horse. And the prosecution was kind of stumped becasue there was no law on the books, saying you couldnt fucka horse. Had he lived, I could just imagine the guy going out in public and people saying 'hey arent you the horse fucker' and his rebuttal'comeon guys, it aint illegal. Whats the problem'
Speaking of race, there are plently of white Americans who only honor equal rights and anti-discrimination policies because they're the law. They may try to wriggle out of as much of the spirit as possible, but frankly those laws would never have been allowed to stand if it wasn't for the respect of rule of law. Lynchings are what happened when people decided that the law wasn't doing a good enough job, and no reasonable person remembers those events as being examples to follow.

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my post was in reference to your absurd statement that Trayvon may be just as biologically 'white' as Zimmerman. I don't know if you're being obtuse intentionally or not.
I said genetically, though maybe that's playing semantics - same thing, right? Genetic research reveals that on average American blacks are about 1/3 to 2/3 of European ancestry. If we say Zimmerman was white, what are we talking about? We're dealing with the subjects of genetics and culture.

If we say Zimmerman was "biologically white" because he's 50% white, then we have to say people like Obama are "biologically white" as well. Yet we don't consider him white. The US has traditionally had a "one drop rule" that left people of miscegenated ancestry being categorized as non-white, which is probably one reason we don't consider many people white who are actually mixed.

I find it hard to believe that Zimmerman could be considered ethnically white since mixed individuals are not actually embraced by the Anglo American tradition as being white but of whatever other people they are mixed with. This rules out Zimmerman being considered ethnically or culturally white - or even that he would benefit from white supremacy. White supremacists overwhelmingly abhor miscegenates.

As you stated, American culture segregates you based on your appearance. Frankly, I don't see how Zimmerman is benefitting in any way from white supremacy and I don't think he even looks white.

Do you?

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  #32  
Old 07-16-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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I don't know of any loopholes that defend pedophiles or even rapists, excepting assaults that happen within prison settings. If everyone knows it, then they should come forward. If even convicted homocidal psychopaths find pedophiles abhorrent, it seems unlikely that a child molestation is going to stand. Frankly, I don't know what I would do, but I do know I wouldn't make it into a race issue if it wasn't.
Its called the prosecution proving without a doubt that the guy did it. There could be lack of credible evidence. There could be the prosecution fucks it up, what have you. Thats not a loophole and I didnt say it was a loophole. I said he would get off on a "fluke". A fluke does not equate to a loophole.

And i am not koolarrow.
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Old 07-16-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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And i am not koolarrow.
My bad.

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I said he would get off on a "fluke". A fluke does not equate to a loophole.
OK. Would you say Zimmerman got off on a fluke?
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  #34  
Old 07-16-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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I think there was a misunderstanding about this point.

The logic here is that if Zimmerman, a miscegenated American, can be accused of being the benefactor of white supremacy (which I really doubt is the case,) then likely so could most of the participants on this forum.
I'd have to disagree. In my humble opinion Freedom made a valid point when he said it is not only whites that benefit or perpetuate white supremacy. In this particular situation, Zimmerman benefited because he appears to be white physically- he wasn't known to be 1/2 Peruvian until he was charged weeks after the fact.

Additionally, Sanford is a predominately white community and the altercation occurred inside a gated neighborhood. The assumption being that only affluent WASPs (or those of similar socioeconomic status) should be inside the gates late at night.

I've heard people say that Zimmerman didn't know that Martin was black when he decided to follow him, which I would think is true. However, he made an assumption that Martin was an individual up to no good due solely on the fact that he had on baggy/slouchy jeans and a dark hoodie over his head - never mind the fact that it was said to have been raining that night. That is where the racist undertones shine through - while we may never know Zimmerman's true thoughts of Martin on that night, I think it's a safe bet to say that he thought it was a young black or latino man who wasn't supposed to be there.
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Old 07-17-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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However, he made an assumption that Martin was an individual up to no good due solely on the fact that he had on baggy/slouchy jeans and a dark hoodie over his head - never mind the fact that it was said to have been raining that night. That is where the racist undertones shine through -
I think you're conflating judgment based on a person's attire or visible participation in a subculure with actual racism. If Zimmerman thought Martin looked like a thug from making an assumption based on his clothing that is very different from targeting someone due to their race or ethnicity. The irony, of course, being that what we wear and how we wear what we have is the one thing that directly advertises our chosen social affiliations immediately to society and is also something which we are able to change - unlike racial features.

In a way, the way we dress can be the way we choose to reflect the content of our character regardless of the color of our skin.

If you think that Zimmerman blends in with WASPs and looks as Anglo Saxon as King Edward, who am I to tell you otherwise. I thought he was Korean.
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Old 07-17-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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I think you're conflating judgment based on a person's attire or visible participation in a subculure with actual racism. If Zimmerman thought Martin looked like a thug from making an assumption based on his clothing that is very different from targeting someone due to their race or ethnicity. The irony, of course, being that what we wear and how we wear what we have is the one thing that directly advertises our chosen social affiliations immediately to society and is also something which we are able to change - unlike racial features.

In a way, the way we dress can be the way we choose to reflect the content of our character regardless of the color of our skin.

If you think that Zimmerman blends in with WASPs and looks as Anglo Saxon as King Edward, who am I to tell you otherwise. I thought he was Korean.
you fail at reading comprehension
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Old 07-17-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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I think you're conflating judgment based on a person's attire or visible participation in a subculure with actual racism. If Zimmerman thought Martin looked like a thug from making an assumption based on his clothing that is very different from targeting someone due to their race or ethnicity. The irony, of course, being that what we wear and how we wear what we have is the one thing that directly advertises our chosen social affiliations immediately to society and is also something which we are able to change - unlike racial features.

In a way, the way we dress can be the way we choose to reflect the content of our character regardless of the color of our skin.

If you think that Zimmerman blends in with WASPs and looks as Anglo Saxon as King Edward, who am I to tell you otherwise. I thought he was Korean.
I haven't said that Zimmerman was racist (I can't speak for everyone on this thread or out in the internet), only that the case is infuriating to so many because of how the history of race-relations in this country has permeated U.S. society today - which undoubtedly led to Zimmerman's assumptions and actions that night and consequently, Martin's death.
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Old 07-17-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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you fail at reading comprehension
Or maybe you're just wrong. I'm here for the debate - I just don't think we agree. I also suspect that time will prove me right about this Zimmerman issue, though I accept that I could be wrong. So far, I just don't see compelling evidence of racism. Saying that it's racist for someone to be suspicious of a figure wearing a hoodie coupled with baggy, slouchy (was he sagging?) jeans is like saying that only minorities dress that way... which is kind of a racist stereotype, when you think about it.

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I haven't said that Zimmerman was racist (I can't speak for everyone on this thread or out in the internet), only that the case is infuriating to so many because of how the history of race-relations in this country has permeated U.S. society today - which undoubtedly led to Zimmerman's assumptions and actions that night and consequently, Martin's death.
Well, the title of the thread claims Zimmerman was aquitted by due to white supremacy and the article quoted at the beginning tries to make the argument that he, more or less, holds white supremacist views. I think that's just too much for me to swalllow.

When you bring up race relations... Straight up, in frankness, aside from the media, I think the black community is reacting this way because they have to. History has taught them to stick together and that, if they don't, they will be on the wrong end of the most warped bigotry imaginable. Trayvon was probably just an average young man wanting to be tough under a lot of pressure to prove himself, and like any parents, I'm sure his are in agony - law and circumstance be damned.

The thing is, like someone mentioned earlier, stuff like this happens all the time so why is it plastered all over the media now? I'm not going to choose between irrationality or division, and my argument is that others should really think about this case and why the media has chosen to focus on it and not make that compromise either.

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Old 07-17-2013
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Or maybe you're just wrong. I'm here for the debate - I just don't think we agree. I also suspect that time will prove me right about this Zimmerman issue, though I accept that I could be wrong. So far, I just don't see compelling evidence of racism. Saying that it's racist for someone to be suspicious of a figure wearing a hoodie coupled with baggy, slouchy (was he sagging?) jeans is like saying that only minorities dress that way... which is kind of a racist stereotype, when you think about it.
but who said any of that? Thats why your reading comprehension sucks. You're arguing against claims no one is making.
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Old 07-17-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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but who said any of that? Thats why your reading comprehension sucks. You're arguing against claims no one is making.
Response, from the first post:
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Originally Posted by FreedomNow View Post
In the last few days, Latinos in particular have spoken up again about Zimmerman’s race, and the “white Hispanic” label especially, largely responding to social media users and mass media pundits who employed the term. Watching Zimmerman in the defense seat, his sister in the courtroom, and his mother on the stand, one can’t deny the skin color that informs their experience. They are not white. Yet Zimmerman’s apparent ideology—one that is suspicious of black men in his neighborhood, the “assholes who always get away—” is one that adheres to white supremacy. It was replicated in the courtroom by his defense, whose team tore away at Rachel Jeantel, questioning the young woman as if she was taking a Jim Crow–era literacy test. A defense that, during closing, cited slave-owning rapist Thomas Jefferson, played an animation for the jury based on erroneous assumptions, made racially coded accusations about Trayvon Martin emerging “out of the darkness,” and had the audacity to compare the case of the killing of an unarmed black teenager to siblings arguing over which one stole a cookie.

When Zimmerman was acquitted today, it wasn’t because he’s a so-called white Hispanic. He’s not. It’s because he abides by the logic of white supremacy, and was supported by a defense team—and a swath of society—that supports the lingering idea that some black men must occasionally be killed with impunity in order to keep society-at-large safe.

Media on the left, right and center have been fanning the flames of fear-mongering, speculating that people—and black people especially—will take to the streets. That fear-mongering represents a deep white anxiety about black bodies on the streets, and echoes Zimmerman’s fears: that black bodies on the street pose a public threat. But the real violence in those speculations, regardless of whether they prove to be true, is that it silences black anxiety. The anxiety that black men feel every time they walk outside the door—and the anxiety their loved ones feel for them as well. That white anxiety serves to conceal the real public threat: that a black man is killed every twenty-eight hours by a cop or vigilante.

People will take to the streets, and with good reason. They’ll be there because they know that, yes, some people do always get away—and it tends to be those strapped with guns and the logic of white supremacy at their side.
Not to mention the title of the thread. The comments about the clothing are referring to what xicanachick wrote...

Last edited by Masaru; 07-17-2013 at 01:05 AM.
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  #41  
Old 07-17-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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u know... not only white people uphold the logic/ideology of white supremacy...

white supremacy isn't just about people wearing pillow cases over their heads anymore...


and... hipsanics.... by the highly arbitrary US census, can b categorized as white...
....
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Old 07-17-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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OK. Would you say Zimmerman got off on a fluke?
I did not follow the case, so i cant say for sure. I only read a little on when it first happened and some articles in between. Newspaper articles can have more info sometimes because they don't have time constraints like tv news.
Anyway, there is a high possibility he got off on a fluke.

There was a case of drunk driving and vehicular manslaughter here in Austin by a WHITE girl with parental money and was an AID in the texas senate. She fled the scene and was picked up the next morning. S he got off with probation because the prosecution couldnt prove vehicular manslaughter and stopping to render aid. Yet it is widely believed she got off because of her connections and her race. High possibility.

As for Zimmerman being white or not. In this country you dont always have to be full on cracker to get the privilege. Just whiter/lighter then the next person. Goes for the law and other things, historically.

And I did not think he looked Asian at all. Did he look like a wasp? No, but But wasp don't hold the sole claim to being white.
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Old 07-17-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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There was a case of drunk driving and vehicular manslaughter here in Austin by a WHITE girl with parental money and was an AID in the texas senate. She fled the scene and was picked up the next morning. S he got off with probation because the prosecution couldnt prove vehicular manslaughter and stopping to render aid. Yet it is widely believed she got off because of her connections and her race. High possibility.
I don't agree. I think it is by far more likely that she ONLY got off due to her position with the state and her parent's money .. had she been "full on cracker" (meh at the names) and poor, she'd have had the book thrown at her .. period.

I know I've said this many times, but it's true - there is noone that I know or have ever known who is "white" where the color of their skin, or lack thereof, has EVER - not ever even once - helped them in any way shape or form - even less a legal one. Fact is, it's been quite the opposite for me.

All of this color tagging is wrong and disheartening to me. It just is. I hear all day everyday how noone wants to be targeted because of their race, color, religion, political preference .. it's hypocritical to say that you don't want it done to you, and yet would be one of the first ones in line to do it to others. At that point, your "fight for justice, truth, and civil rights" rings hollow.

In my opinion, Trayvon was precious to his parents - yes - absolutely, but no different than any other child REGARDLESS OF COLOR is precious to their parents .. to say that he or his case is any more or less important than anyone else is just wrong - on every level. Shame on anyone who says differently!!

There are cases that are unjust, where adults shot and killed unarmed minors - especially in FL - but also in GA .. and yet .. where is the outcry? The media coverage? That's right, there was little to none. The ONLY reason this Trayvon/Zimmerman case has been high profile is because Obama got involved - which in turn brought one too many race baiters into focus. The division of our country benefits only one entity .. the gov't.

Divide and conquer. People need to get a clue. We all need to stand united in purpose - now more than ever - if we can't agree, we need to respect one another enough to agree to disagree - but we all need to stand united.

And what about these children's justice? What about their parent's grief? WE the people have allowed this to be done .. OUR nation is doing this .. still - most drone strikes that kill children are done when their schools were (for lack of a better term) taken out .. really? Where in a school is an Al Queda member that we're targeting? And why in the hell would we hit schools knowing that children were there? Talk about a grave injustice:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/24...stan-and-yemen

My two cents.
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  #44  
Old 07-19-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

You might be on to something there Dannie. A lot of times, it really isn't about race. it's about money. I doubt poor white people get any sort of "white privilege" in the court system.

Anyhow, I've learned to hate getting into any sort of discussion that involves "racism" Mainly b/c there is a general misunderstanding or misuse of the term AND/OR their definition of the term differs from mine.

Last edited by SJ; 07-19-2013 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 07-19-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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Originally Posted by sweetnspicy79 View Post
It is about Race and Money.
FUCK THAT PUTO.
And you don't see hispanics or blacks mocking his death by "treyvoning"
Has anyone seen that shit? Its fucking disgusting.
Havent seen it.

But I do see Mexicans parroting the same talking points, a lot of white morons are saying.
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Old 07-19-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
But I do see Mexicans parroting the same talking points, a lot of white morons are saying.
That forum (won't say the name) doesn't count.
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Old 07-19-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

what makes you think its on a different forum?
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Old 07-19-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

NM then.
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Old 07-19-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

My question is, how can Zimmermann even pull off claiming the Stand Your Ground Law. From my understanding, Zimmermann called the police after observing Martin and it's been stated that police advised Zimmermann to stay in his car. Where he was 'safe' Zimmermann didn't listen and instead went armed with a gun to confront Martin. I would then assume that the Stand Your Ground Law is not applicable anymore because Zimmermann, through his actions, portrayed intent to cause harm

Then again that's what I've read in the media and we all know most of the media is biased and what not...
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Old 07-20-2013
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Default Re: White Supremacy Acquits Zimmerman

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My question is, how can Zimmermann even pull off claiming the Stand Your Ground Law. From my understanding, Zimmermann called the police after observing Martin and it's been stated that police advised Zimmermann to stay in his car. Where he was 'safe' Zimmermann didn't listen and instead went armed with a gun to confront Martin. I would then assume that the Stand Your Ground Law is not applicable anymore because Zimmermann, through his actions, portrayed intent to cause harm
thats what I think anyone with common sense would think, but the law has nothing to do with common sense. I still have a hard time understanding how someone who is supposedly getting their ass kicked to the point where they're in fear for their life, can have time to draw a gun and shoot. What, was Martin taking a breather? Those pjx of his injuries are weak. He looks like he got into it with a girl.
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