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  #1  
Old 11-20-2004
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Default Thanksgiving: The Truth

http://www.attheoak.com/holiday/thanksgiving3.html

Thanksgiving: The Truth

Most of us associate the Thanksgiving holiday with happy Pilgrims and Indians sitting down to a big feast. And that did happen - once.
The story began in 1614 when a band of English explorers sailed home to England with a ship full of Patuxet Indians bound for slavery. They left behind smallpox which virtually wiped out the Natives who had escaped.
In 1620, when some separatists from the Church of England (now called Pilgrims) arrived in Massachusetts Bay, they found only one living Patuxet Indian, a man named Squanto who had survived slavery...first in Spain and then in England where he learned the English language. Squanto was originally from the village of Patuxet and a member of the Pokanokit Wampanoag Nation. Patuxet once stood on the exact site where the Pilgrims built Plymouth. The wheat the Pilgrims had brought with them to plant would not grow in the rocky soil...they needed to learn new ways for a new world. Squanto taught them to grow corn, to hunt and to fish. He also negotiated a peace treaty between the Pilgrims and the Wampanoag Nation. At the end of their first year, the Pilgrims held a great feast honoring Squanto and the Wampanoags.
But as word spread in England about the paradise to be found in the new world, religious zealots (Puritans) began arriving by the boat load...their mentality did not tolerate differing political, social and religious beliefs. Finding no fences around the land, they considered it to be in the public domain. With a Bible in their hands to justify their every move, the Puritans began their march inland from the seaside communities. Joined by other settlers, they seized land, capturing strong young Natives for slaves and killing the rest.
The Pequot Nation had not agreed to the peace treaty Squanto had negotiated and they fought back. The Pequot War was one of the bloodiest Indian wars ever fought. In 1637 near present day Groton, Connecticut, over 700 men, women and children of the Pequot Tribe had gathered for their annual Green Corn Festival which was one of their Thanksgiving celebrations. In the predawn hours the sleeping Indians were surrounded by English and Dutch mercenaries who ordered them to come outside. Those who came out were shot or clubbed to death, while the terrified women and children who huddled inside the longhouse were burned alive. The next day the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared 'A Day Of Thanksgiving' because 700 unarmed men, women and children had been murdered.
Cheered by their 'victory,' the brave colonists attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible. Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, another day of 'thanksgiving' was announced to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls.
Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for all to see.
The killings became more and more frenzied, with a 'thanksgiving feast' being held after each successful massacre. George Washington finally suggested that only one day of Thanksgiving per year be set aside, instead of celebrating each and every massacre. Years later, during the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln decreed Thanksgiving Day to be a legal national holiday -- he did this on the same day he ordered troops to march against the starving Sioux in Minnesota.
This story doesn't have quite the same fuzzy feelings associated with it as the one where the Indians and Pilgrims are all sitting down together at the big feast. But we need to learn our true history so it won't ever be repeated.
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Old 11-20-2004
La_Goofy La_Goofy is offline
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damn i don't think i wanna sit down and eat on thanksgiving day no more. its hella sad. shit in my english class imma bring this up and see wha people say.

la goofy
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Old 11-20-2004
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Thanks for the article. I'm going to print it out for Joe (guy in the band I'm in) bc he's going to speak on KPFK and speak about the truth about thanksgiving.
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Old 11-21-2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La_Goofy
damn i don't think i wanna sit down and eat on thanksgiving day no more. its hella sad. shit in my english class imma bring this up and see wha people say.

la goofy
That's good. Open minds. Make people think.
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Old 11-21-2004
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I'm going to copy this and send it all my co-workers who argue with me over Indian rights But, they still wont believe it Stupid ass self-righteous pompus white animals (people).







Sorry Grandpa Richard, I got carried away
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Old 11-22-2004
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A lot of people live in their own world.
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Old 11-23-2004
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This is sickening! It's rediculous how white people glorify things for their own sake!
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Old 11-23-2004
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most of them are just ignorant of the truth......keyword MOST....


but yea...i stopped celebrating the genocide several years back...damn filtered education
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Old 11-23-2004
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Thanks for sharing these articles, guys. It is important for me to know all this because I want to pass it on to my kids when the time is right. I've learned so much from you two.
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Old 11-23-2004
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BUMP


I'm going to keep bumping this one til the end of this month.
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Old 11-24-2004
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gotta bump it up so everyone reads it
they told me about this in class years ago =)
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Old 11-24-2004
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I heard of it years ago, but kind of forgot parts of it. I got reminded again bc of a friend.
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Old 11-24-2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
I heard of it years ago, but kind of forgot parts of it. I got reminded again bc of a friend.
gotta admit i was reminded by that post so thx =)
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Old 11-24-2004
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You're welcome.

Just replying to keep this up for a while longer...
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Old 11-25-2004
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as i sad before there are sumething in almost every country that goverments wont talk bout .
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2005
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bump
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Old 11-22-2005
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small pox and other european diseases where literally killing thousands and thousands of natives.

many did not even come into direct contact with europeans,the disease was spread by natives traveling inland to get some distance between themselves and the europeans.

what is suprising in the article was the body count the pilgrims gave as defeating the pueqot.

i would think it more realistic to be a much smaller number by warefare, but the total body count of those already dead plus killed could have made the seven hundred.

writing seven hundred reminded me of the religious show on tv called the seven hundred club.

wonder if there is any correlation.

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old 11-23-2005
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Possibily. I live a few miles from their building. They never hire anyone for technical thing (I know. Tried to work there to infiltraite). Everything is contract for a few months since it's cheaper.
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Old 11-23-2005
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i thought this thread was about the truth of thanksgiving not of small pox. well try this for an enlightening story:

http://www.new-life.net/thanks01.htm

God bless you.
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Old 11-23-2005
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thanks for the thanksgiving prozac link chalebrown
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Old 11-23-2005
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it is so interesting how just a simple thing (in this case a day; festivity) has so many things behind it. We just see it as hey lets go eat turkey! we enjoy withouth really knowing why. Or sometimes we think we know but we really dont. I really appreaciate yall for instructing us and letting us know a lil bit more about it, it is really staggering how one thing leads to another. Here is when im like: I should've paid attention in class! we miss things that might not seem important at the moment but later on teach us a lot.
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Old 11-23-2005
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Until Tec posted this I didnt give a shit what the holiday was about. I mean, I knew only what was taught to me in school. To my family it was a dinner, football, the ladies making tamales and later after some booze my tia beating up my other tia for calling her ol man a loser. The holidays anymore dont celebrate what they are about anyway (lies). Look at xmas, the only headlines now about it is the xbox360 craze and this damn new dish "Turduken" ....pfft! even xmas holiday has some issues.

Another thing that annoys me is how they used religion as an excuse to do the horrific things they did.

Awwww hell no turkey for me, I got to work anyways so I will just get me a nacho fix from 7/11 and a slurpee.
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Old 11-24-2005
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solitude, you're so full of knowledge that it obscures your sight. you totally missed the point but here they are:

1. the Pilgrims weren't the first people in America to hold a thanksgiving

2. that the first thanksgiving had no religious significance at all, but was merely a harvest festival

3. that our traditional Thanksgiving dinner has nothing in common with the Pilgrim's meal.

here munch on this:

http://members.aol.com/calebj/thanksgiving.html
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Old 11-24-2005
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lets take your argument chale and say that the pilgrims werent the first ones to celebrate thanksgiving.

The fact that what they did to the people and the land when they came over is revolting. they played along, learned from "indians" how to farm, how to live off the land, Hunt, and then the only thing in repayment was smallpox......They stole everything from them. And now you are going to argue that the story behind thanksgiving is about sharing and all that fuzzy stuff. What I was taught in school history books showed "indians" and pilgrims smiling and having a fun time, when in reality it was a nightmare.

the link you provided solitude I found something interesting. In this following quote from the link you provided I highlighted some interesting points.......


"Lincoln's Thanksgiving Proclomation that follows is taken from the collection of Lincoln's papers in the Library of America series, Vol II, pp. 520-521."

"The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequalled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle, or the ship; the axe had enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom.

No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to his tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferersin the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union."

Abraham Lincoln


In this proclomation religion is thrown in there, refrences admiting how the land was taken by axe. I mean what the f#*#! what more does one need to realize that this is a bunch of hype bullshit clouded by peter pan stories to make it more easy to hide behind the real terror. You said

"2. that the first thanksgiving had no religious significance at all, but was merely a harvest festival"

Why doesnt abraham lincoln or those other presidents and people give it the credit it deserves then, why dont they make refrence to that in which you stated above in the proclamation?

Im not educated in history and am trying I only have a high school diploma and some college in law, however I am always open to learning about the truth and going with whats in my heart. Everything I showed or stated or quoted above was just by an effort to see your point of view but the fact remains that with what I learned in mind, and what sources tec has provided and solitude I have to see it thier way. the sources you provide has no signifigance but only to those that are followers of fairy tales like peter pan.

sorry chale......
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  #25  
Old 11-24-2005
chalebrown chalebrown is offline
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so according to many the repayment to indians was smallpox. i ask, since i am not quite sure did the european people inflict
the natives with this disease intently?

sambitho all lands are taken by force apparently you did not see the other thread. anyway are you thankful today?
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