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  #26  
Old 06-20-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

Nothing wrong with him trying to keep this thread "clean"

It seems to have been a good discussion so far.
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  #27  
Old 06-20-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

there is something wrong with someone trying to control other peoples posting. No one is keeping anyone from discussing the topic. Its seems like the OP is just being a hypersensitive control freak with no sense of humor.
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  #28  
Old 06-20-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelito21 View Post
Girls were told not to cry because they had to endure silently and not bother the husband with petty complaints.
As a girl -woman- I was raised to serve my parents,
my husband,
my children

to not complain but to sacrifice my comfort for that of others.
always putting others first.

That mental attitude will make you a victim in this world, unless you learn that in order to serve you, I must first serve myself.
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  #29  
Old 06-20-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
there is something wrong with someone trying to control other peoples posting. No one is keeping anyone from discussing the topic. Its seems like the OP is just being a hypersensitive control freak with no sense of humor.
I was extremely polite. I made a respectful request. I read the two of you refering to women as "bitches" & "hoes" and that is derogatory towards females. This thread is supposed to be about feminism and we have women sharing on here and then you two clowns come in here making derogatory remarks about women and that is inappropriate.

CaliPac refering to women as "hoes"
Quote:
Bro's b4 Hoes, and that's all I got to say about that.

KoolArrow referring to women as "bitches" & "broads"
Quote:
you fool! You're not supposed to let bitchesknow abouttheblood oath we take at birth, to oppress broads every chancewe get!

This honestly isnt against the forum rules???
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  #30  
Old 06-20-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by REMAINING STRONG View Post
This honestly isnt against the forum rules???
Nope. They didn't specifically call anyone on this thread a hoe or a bitch. They were trying to be funny. Lighten up.

However, you did make a case for not wanting your topic to stray off into an immature back and forth. I was with you.

But instead of dropping it and letting it go by steering it back on track like the previous users. You have decided not to. And instead here we are steering off topic yet again into useless discussion about the forum rules.

Good job?

Maybe we can get back on track again? Or would you rather have all 3 of us continue with this discussion?

Last edited by SJ; 06-20-2013 at 09:50 PM.
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  #31  
Old 06-20-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Nope. They didn't specifically call anyone on this thread a hoe or a bitch.
Okay so its against the forum rules to use derogatory speech towards an individual female but it is okay to use deragatory speech that degrades all females as a whole? Thank you for clarifying that that. Thats much better SJ.







I am so embarrassed to be a male right now.
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  #32  
Old 06-20-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by REMAINING STRONG View Post
I am so embarrassed to be a male right now.
not nearly as embarrassed as we are to have you
seriously you have no sen se of humor and your being defensive on behalf of 'all women' is more patronizing and offensive to women as a group. Whining about the forum rules is a bitch move and warrants someone being beat like a hoe, with a dirty shoe.I apologize to the entire female population but thats just how I feel.
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Last edited by KoolArrow; 06-20-2013 at 11:04 PM. Reason: added misogyny
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  #33  
Old 06-20-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by REMAINING STRONG View Post
Okay so its against the forum rules to use derogatory speech towards an individual female but it is okay to use deragatory speech that degrades all females as a whole? Thank you for clarifying that that. Thats much better SJ.
The reason we can't protect groups of people(whether it's females, republicans, gays, whites, catholics, etc) is it becomes very difficult to try and moderate. If we get into removing every negative thing posted about a specific group of people, there would be no room for discussion. Not to mention the nightmare it would be to try and determine what is offensive and what isn't since it really depends on the individual what he/she deems inappropriate or degrading.

In the example of females, we remove their post about women, I guess we should remove rap videos posted since some people find women shaking their asses on those videos degrading. I suppose we should also remove any celebrity pictures that seem like they are sexually objectifying women because some will also find those types of posts degrading.

Jokes section gone since there is a probably a fair amount of material of where we are making fun of a specific group. Whether it be ourselves as chicanos or another specific group of people.

Of course this doesn't mean people can say whatever they want. If for instance we sense all a user is doing is talking bad about a specific group and in no way is contributing anything positive, then you can bet we will do something about that. We certainly don't want the reputation of being a hate filled site. Or a site where people might think it's okay.

I think women here know better than that. I doubt many women here would say this site is derogatory against anybod. Especially with such a meaningless comment made by two members of this site where it's evidently clear they like to joke around. There is no "hatred" coming out of these two. Just two guys who decided to make a joke. This happen on this site all the time. It's unfortunate you took it so serious.

But again, congratulations on allowing us to continue derailing this otherwise healthy discussion.

Last edited by SJ; 06-20-2013 at 11:33 PM.
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  #34  
Old 06-20-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

Quote:
The way this is worded you would think the guy getting cannibalized was the beneficiary of sexism whereas the women and children who were spared were the victims of sexism.
As I was giving an almost off-topic example (off topic because the entire discussion is about Western Occidental cultures/societies and this dealt with practices common in indigenous tribes), I'm really not sure the notions of "sexism", "oppressors" and "victims" even apply.

Truthfully I'm not even sure how relevant these notions are when trying to analyze and understand our own modern societies.



But anyway, the point is simply the following: you cannot equate preservation of life with higher regard.

Arguing that you can and should equate the two, far from being some kind of breakthrough in the sociological analysis of our societies, is actually the oldest and most common argument used to defend male dominance and patriarchy.

When "protection" is used to justify confinment and loss of agency, when it leads to practices and theories of inferiority, which it historically has and continues to do so even today, it is but an empty word.
I don't see how you can argue that it really in fact denotes reverence and higher regard.




Arguing that "sexism", "machismo", "male dominance", or whatever you wanna call it, actually hurts men also is one thing.

That's the "bits and pieces" I agreed with: how it puts men in unheallthy situations where they have to repress feelings of insecurity, fear, sadness, etc.

In fact, that is something many feminist movements have long insisted upon, on the many negative consequences the "machismo" model has on men and on man-woman dynamics, and not just on how much it inferiorizes women.



Then, arguing that it actually benefits women and denotes a higher value being attributed to them and to femaleness in general is quite another thing.

The examples she used to justify that position were, in my opinion, shaky at best, not supported by actual historical evidence and quite nonsensical at times.




Finally, arguing that feminists control society, get everything they demand and organized a greatly successful "society-wide manipulative pscychology" ... I don't even think that deserves commenting on.


In the end, the video came out, in my view, as roughly 10-12 minutes of poor arguments followed by 5 minutes of rant-like comments without much of anything to support them.
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  #35  
Old 06-20-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
not nearly as embarrassed as we are to have you
seriously you have no sen se of humor and your being defensive on behalf of 'all women' is more patronizing and offensive to women as a group. Whining about the forum rules is a bitch move and warrants someone being beat like a hoe, with a dirty shoe.I apologize to the entire female population but thats just how I feel.
I wasnt whining about the forum rules dipshit, I was making a joke about them because I do have a sense of humor.

I fail to see how treating people with basic respect is patronizing or offensive.

I have no interest in arguing with someone with the mind of a child, I graduated from that when I graduated from elementary school.

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Last edited by REMAINING STRONG; 06-21-2013 at 04:03 AM.
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  #36  
Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by SJ View Post
The reason we can't protect groups of people(whether it's females, republicans, gays, whites, catholics, etc) is it becomes very difficult to try and moderate. If we get into removing every negative thing posted about a specific group of people, there would be no room for discussion. Not to mention the nightmare it would be to try and determine what is offensive and what isn't since it really depends on the individual what he/she deems inappropriate or degrading .
Why dont we just make a rule to refer to women as women? Nothing more nothing less.

Quote:
There is no "hatred" coming out of these two. Just two guys who decided to make a joke.
Those 2 guys are a joke.

I guess I was raised differently. Had some of these "men" been raised in my house and made these "jokes" my pops would of bitch slapped them so hard they would of had their teeth all over the floor.


Different strokes for different folks indeed.
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  #37  
Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

she has several videos on you tube. This is another:

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Last edited by REMAINING STRONG; 06-21-2013 at 01:55 AM.
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  #38  
Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by miguelito21 View Post
the point is simply the following: you cannot equate preservation of life with higher regard.
YES IT IS.

We preserve what is most important and allow to die what we consider worthless. Why do you think they dont put the Generals on the front lines of battles? They are too important to the war for them to be put in harms way. Instead they put people who are not designated as important there instead. We preserve the lives of who matters the most. Those who matter the least we take the biggest risks with the lives of. Before patriarchy rose to power, many cultures were initially matriarchal and this practice is a remnant of the matriarchial era.

You seem to believe that men dying was because they thought they were superior. Did it ever occur to you that many of these men sacrificed themselves because they sincerely believed the womans life to be more valuable??
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  #39  
Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

I found this reading http://menaregood.com/trash.html and felt it explained the origins of male disposability as a belief quite well:

MALE DISPOSABILITY


The sex roles that drove a man's and a woman's behavior for thousands of years had great impact on each sex. One of the impacts of the sex role on men was the attitude of disposability that developed over the years. By that I mean the tendency of people to be less likely to get emotionally close to men and to see them as expendable. Why would that be?

Imagine we are living long ago and the women were caring for the hearth and the children and making forays to gather while the men were more likely to go out and hunt. The relative danger of those two behaviors is not subtle. Going out to hunt is decidedly more dangerous and the liklihood of the man returning home after a hunt was much smaller than the same liklhood for the woman performing her daily activities. When we dont' expect someone to return what impact does that have on our interest in making an emotional attachment to them? It diminishes. We are less likely to invest our emotional ergs into someone or something that we fear may not be with us. This was obviously not just around the issue of hunting. Men were expected to guard the perimeter and to repel attacks by intruders. This was a dangerous activity and again, increased the liklihood that the man would be dissappearing. We tend to not invest in folks who we fear will not be returning. Yet another example is war time. Men were the ones who were expected to go to war and die protecting the village/community/country.

This diminished investment is not subtle but very few people are aware of their own tendency to do this. Let's try an exercise to evaluate your way of thinking. Has it ever bothered you that only males are expected to sign up for the selecttive service? That it is only males expected to go and die in case of a national emergency? Does that bug you? Okay, now imagine that congress in all its wisdom has changed the law and decided that we need to draft only girls and women until an equal number of women and girls have died in combat to the numbers of men and boys who have died. Would that upset you? Why? Do you value women and girls more than boys and men? How about if we decided to draft only Black people? Maybe only Jews? Would either of those groups being sacrificed upset you? Would you protest for any of those to not be the only group drafted? Can you feel in your bones how upsetting that would be? If you answered yes to any of those questions, how was your response different from thinking it is okay to draft only men? If you had a different reaction then you are likely holding some of that tendency to consider men and boys to be more disposable.

You can see this tendency in many places. Boys and men comprise almost 80% of suicides and yet we have no outcry or services specifically for this. Men and boys are over 90% of the workplace deaths in the Unted States but no one seems to notice. Over 97% if the deaths of U.S. servicemen in Iraq are men and boys and yet we hear no protest in support of men and boys or calls for equality. Men are the victims of domestic violence in considerable numbers and yet we have no services directed towards their needs. All we need to do is open our eyes to see the extent that men and boys are seen as expendable. It is all around us. Ever heard of the wife telling the husband she will go investigate the loud noise that awoke them from a deep sleep?

The age old sex role for men has trickled down into a straight-jacket that harnesses men to be the expendable ones. Most people are simpy unconscious of this and treat men according to their own unconscious programming. How about you?
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Dont assume that when people speak of the sacrifices they've made that they are speaking of self sacrifice. The wolves here are disguised as sheep and the sheep are framed and slaughtered by the wolves.

Last edited by REMAINING STRONG; 06-21-2013 at 02:27 AM.
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  #40  
Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by SJ View Post
The reason we can't protect groups of people(whether it's females, republicans, gays, whites, catholics, etc) is it becomes very difficult to try and moderate. If we get into removing every negative thing posted about a specific group of people, there would be no room for discussion. Not to mention the nightmare it would be to try and determine what is offensive and what isn't since it really depends on the individual what he/she deems inappropriate or degrading.

In the example of females, we remove their post about women, I guess we should remove rap videos posted since some people find women shaking their asses on those videos degrading. I suppose we should also remove any celebrity pictures that seem like they are sexually objectifying women because some will also find those types of posts degrading.

Jokes section gone since there is a probably a fair amount of material of where we are making fun of a specific group. Whether it be ourselves as chicanos or another specific group of people.

Of course this doesn't mean people can say whatever they want. If for instance we sense all a user is doing is talking bad about a specific group and in no way is contributing anything positive, then you can bet we will do something about that. We certainly don't want the reputation of being a hate filled site. Or a site where people might think it's okay.

I think women here know better than that. I doubt many women here would say this site is derogatory against anybod. Especially with such a meaningless comment made by two members of this site where it's evidently clear they like to joke around. There is no "hatred" coming out of these two. Just two guys who decided to make a joke. This happen on this site all the time. It's unfortunate you took it so serious.

But again, congratulations on allowing us to continue derailing this otherwise healthy discussion.
I don't buy this argument at all. Soy isn't what I would call a "high traffic site", and the number of members and posts that might be taken as offensive to others are just enough so they could easily be taken into account. In fact, there are other forums I'm a part of that just casually using words like those would be enough to get an infraction or warning, at the least, and if moderators didn't catch it, enough complaints would be enough to take necessary action: warnings, infractions, temporary bans, and permanent bans, on the degree of offense and member's standing on the site, with topics deleted or posts removed depending on the severity of the situation.

I'm not asking you or others to make a 180 degree turn and start operating like those sites, though. But do believe me that the casual sexism, racism, and homophobia on sites like Brownpride and Soy has been normalized to the point where members either don't see anything wrong with it, or don't bother speaking up if they do, since they'd be put down swiftly. I do think a part of this is cultural; Mexican and Chicano cultures don't exactly rank high on egalitarianism, and moderation is a lot less strict on these sites. The fact that people even joke like this and others shrug their shoulders should be a concern for anyone passionate over gender inequality.

It sounds a lot more like you'd rather not be bothered with the issue at all and would rather "forget and move on". Changing your entire way of thinking is too much of an inconvenience. There was a time I didn't think much of it, either, even if I never collectively referred to women as "bitches 'n' hoes", nor has my father or any of the males in my family, although many do tend to have very rigid ideas of what a man and a woman are supposed to be or do. I think it's more of an issue within certain subcultures of Chicano men, but it's far from being a Mexican-American male issue only: I've seen enough sexism from the metal, religious, and LGBT communities, so it's not just a matter of liberal vs conservative.

And yes, even with those two members trying to be "funny", there were undertones of sexism. Anyone who can't see that or takes offense should check their privileges at the door and brush up on feminist theory, because this shit is all around us. I'm just trying to think of some inverse situation where women have this sort of power and treat males similarly, what a trip that would be, of course, then it might be the girls telling guys to "stop overreacting" whenever the problem was brought to their attention. Oppressing Olympics is all the rage these days in minority communities.

That's my soapbox speech, and if makes you think or squirm a little, I would have done my job successfully. The last time I posted a link to another site, I was warned, but I'm going to make an exception and do it again, because it means that much to me. I get the feeling several members could potentially benefit from spending time there. http://everydayfeminism.com/tag/race-ethnicity/
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  #41  
Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

A mysogynist joke is pretty much on topic with a discussion about feminism AND the disposable male...

It's funny how you (RS) argue one side of the argument (women getting preferential treatment) against Miguelito and then turn around and act like Captain Save a Hoe when we crack a sexist joke... talk about trying too hard.

Quote:
Soy isn't what I would call a "high traffic site",
Gee... there's a reason for that... take a shot in the dark as to why.

BTW... if this were a feminist movement website where the sole purpose of it was to sit around and speak respectfully of women, then I'd understand any sort of moderation when a joke degrading them was made... but, unfortunately for you and all these other Sensative Sally's, it's a general forum discussion board and there isn't to be any specific alignment with any one topic or stance... except of course ethnicity, as the name would indicate...

but hey if you're so passionate about the subject, get off the internet and go lead a rally.

Last edited by CaliPac; 06-21-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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  #42  
Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by CaliPac View Post
A mysogynist joke is pretty much on topic with a discussion about feminism AND the disposable male...

It's funny how you (RS) argue one side of the argument (women getting preferential treatment) against Miguelito and then turn around and act like Captain Save a Hoe when we crack a sexist joke... talk about trying too hard.



Gee... there's a reason for that... take a shot in the dark as to why.

BTW... if this were a feminist movement website where the sole purpose of it was to sit around and speak respectfully of women, then I'd understand any sort of moderation when a joke degrading them was made... but, unfortunately for you and all these other Sensative Sally's, it's a general forum discussion board and there isn't to be any specific alignment with any one topic or stance... except of course ethnicity, as the name would indicate...

but hey if you're so passionate about the subject, get off the internet and go lead a rally.
Hey look, I caught one.

Why should we be on a feminist website just to speak respectfully of women? That's conditional equality, and if I commit to something, I'm always going to show it regardless of time and place. For me, that would be no better than someone who acts like your friend, then goes talking behind your back with strangers. I'm not some "part time equalist", and would question someone's stance if they told me or implied they were.

I know I can't change the way Soy operates, but if you think I'm going to close my eyes and pretend a problem doesn't exist where there clearly is one, or join in on the festivities when I think they're a bunch of bs, you're wrong. If there's one thing you should remember about me, it's that while I'm fiercely defensive and proud of "my" communities, I'm also their harshest critic, and will not stand by quietly while they tear one another down and keep us down.

As far as "captain... ho" goes, that's a ridiculous term thrown around by jerks who see someone else that doesn't subscribe to the same sexist ideologies as them. What, do you think I'm doing this because I expect some gift from women everywhere in return? I'm doing this because I don't think anyone else should be called names, put down, or ignored simply because they were born with a different set of chromosomes. It this makes me not a "man", or excludes me from being part of the "club", so be it: I'm not sure I'd want to be if it meant becoming exactly like you.

And it's not being sensitive so much as being aware. You don't see me on equal terms, think I have no place here simply because I challenge common perceptions. Your first "joke" was strike one, and when I called it out, you had a hissy fit. Well, at least the message is getting through on some level, even if horribly distorted and offensive. Chicanos spend so much time fighting for issues like bilingual education, immigration reform, and racism, that they sometimes ignore issues within their own community, when those should be top priorities.
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  #43  
Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

Yea... your panties are definitely in a bunch. Get over it.

Last edited by CaliPac; 06-21-2013 at 10:30 AM.
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  #44  
Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by niaV View Post
Hey look, I caught one.
Why should we be on a feminist website just to speak respectfully of women?.
This speaking "respectfully" of women is more offensive than referring to a fictional "woman" as a bitch or a hoe. Women are just people. They don't deserve special treatment (we all want gender equality, right?), someone can refer to either an individual woman, or in this case, a no-name, stock female character a bitch, hoe, etc. as part of a joke, without it being an attack on the entire female population. If a woman says I'm an asshole, does anyone ever say that she hates the entire male population? No, right? Because that would be assine to anyone with half a brain.
You and RS demonstrate a narcassistic personality disorder where you must save these "hoes" that don't even exist in real life. Or perhaps you have Aspergers Syndrome and you can't understand the nuances of language, so you take everything literally, so therefore you can't comprehend literary devices such as irony, satire, etc.
Either way, if its so offensive to women, why are there no women that have spoke out?
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  #45  
Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Either way, if its so offensive to women, why are there no women that have spoke out?
Maybe cause... if they can take a dick, they can take a joke?
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Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by sweetnspicy79 View Post
fuckers!
Thats no way to talk about the entire population of men. I'm highly offended. I'm pretty sure I speak for ALL men, when i say that. They're just not brave enough as me, to stand up to your tyranny and oppression.
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Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
Either way, if its so offensive to women, why are there no women that have spoke out?
Daniel, please...Can I call you Daniel?
I agree with you, as far as people being people.

As a woman, I do find it a bit annoying when, men in general, feel the need to passionately "stand up" for the woman. Now, don't get me wrong, I can appreciate it...to an extent. But, for ME, that makes me feel as if I NEED a man to fight for me, and that's the only way my "voice" will be heard, if it's through a passionate MAN fighting for the woman.

I believe myself to be a strong woman. Do I need a man's help? Sometimes. I'm not going to sit here, waving my fist in the air, shouting, "I am ALL woman! I need no man!" That's just ridiculous.

To the women who are that way....well, good for you. I'm not one to judge how you want to be. We are all individuals, with individual ways of thinking. It upsets me when people want to attack me for thinking differently than they.

Just because I don't think the way you do, doesn't mean that I'm wrong or uneducated, or insane. It just means that I have a different way of seeing things. And I have a right to do so. Just as anyone else has a right to think, speak or act the way they see fit to their beliefs. What I deem a positive belief may not set well with anyone else. does that mean that I'M wrong? No. It means that it's different.

We're all going to go round and round with this, because we all feel or think differently about the "issue". So, I will now jump off the ride before I throw up.
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Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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We preserve what is most important and allow to die what we consider worthless.
Again, although this position can make sense in a logical way (meaning that it does make sense to protect what is more valued), history shows otherwise.


As I said, for centuries and in many societies, only nobles were allowed to bear arms and participate in war, while "small people" (slaves, peasants, merchants, etc.) were barred from it.


Do you think nobles did it because they considered themselves worthless in comparison to the peasants they inferiorized and despised?



This goes way beyond just male-female dynamics and encompasses class relations as well.


In medieval and modern Europe for example (roughly 5th to late 18th century), serfs would put themselves under the protection of the lord.
Serfs would provide a share of their agricultural yields, various weekly tasks, financial help in times of war and in marriage expenses, etc. and the lord would provide land and protection.
The lord was expected to protect his serfs, he was expected to take all the risks and go to battle whenever needed.

Serfs were at the bottom of the social pyramid and I dont think you can make a convincing case that the abuses, oppression and inferiorization they suffered were in fact merely a disguise for some kind of preferential treatment they benefited from.



In another example closer to us, caudillismo and patronaje dynamics in Latin American societies had shared characteristics with medieval/modern Europe, as they too were/are the consequence of highly vertical societies.

The Caudillo, the Patron, who represented the quintessential Male and possessed all the attributes of "hypermasculinity" (strengh, courage, bravery, authority, multiple women, etc.) was the one expected to protect his clientes.
He lead armed men and was expected to be at the frontline of every battle, asserting his authority de cuerpo presente.

Again, I don't think you can make the case that he was expected to take all those risks because he was considered worthless in comparison to his dirt-poor peasant clientes, when in fact he was at the top of the social pyramid.
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Old 06-21-2013
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Default Re: Feminism & the Disposable Male

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Originally Posted by CaliPac View Post
Yea... your panties are definitely in a bunch. Get over it.
Nice last words.

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Originally Posted by KoolArrow View Post
This speaking "respectfully" of women is more offensive than referring to a fictional "woman" as a bitch or a hoe. Women are just people. They don't deserve special treatment (we all want gender equality, right?), someone can refer to either an individual woman, or in this case, a no-name, stock female character a bitch, hoe, etc. as part of a joke, without it being an attack on the entire female population. If a woman says I'm an asshole, does anyone ever say that she hates the entire male population? No, right? Because that would be assine to anyone with half a brain.
You and RS demonstrate a narcassistic personality disorder where you must save these "hoes" that don't even exist in real life. Or perhaps you have Aspergers Syndrome and you can't understand the nuances of language, so you take everything literally, so therefore you can't comprehend literary devices such as irony, satire, etc.
Either way, if its so offensive to women, why are there no women that have spoke out?
Yes, but the problem with those terms is they're still used primarily towards women, and when they're not, the implication is the person in question has qualities that warrant being compared to a woman, which for many men is an insult... THE insult for a few. I can't promise every woman has a problem with the terms, let alone a huge problem, but I can safely say if you started polling random women and asking them, "Don't you just love being called bitches and hos?" very few would seriously say, "Of course!!" There might be an ambivalence, a passive acceptance, "Meh."

There are women who have started taking back and owning these terms (take the term "bad bitch" for example), similar to how black people have done the same with "nigger" or "nigga", but there wouldn't be a need if we didn't assign these slurs to people for behaviors that wouldn't receive equal categorizing from others: a man can be assertive and not be called a bitch for it; a man can sleep around and not be called a whore, instead he's a pimp, playa, stud, etc. Similarly, you hardly hear people referring to women as assholes, pigs, and jerks.

And as a major in Linguistics who does a bit of research into gender and woman's studies from time to time, I think I have a better grasp on these issues than a lot of other guys. There's still more to know, sure, but I know double standards well enough when I see them. Your problem is that I don't share the same sense of humor, and why would I, as someone who has been harassed, taunted, and excluded for being "like" women? Can't speak for RS, but he seems to be singing a much different tune than before.
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