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  #1  
Old 01-26-2007
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Default Caste System

Just a short summary, this is the caste system that the Spanish impose among many of its colonized nations including Mexico. Also, these terms can help you when searching through documents to make your family tree. I'll try to keep this in order and hopefully, this won't confuse you. I wrote text in the bottom for those who can't read the writing.


De espanol y india produce mestizo.






De mestizo y india sale coyote. Another term for coyote is cholo for a male and chola for a female.


De negro y espanola sale mulato.


De mulato y espanola sale morisco.


De espanol y morisca sale albino.


De espanol y albina sale negro-torna-atras.


De negro y india sale lobo. Another term for lobo is zambo.


De lobo y india sale sambaiga.


De sambaigo y india sale albarazado.


De indio y albarazada produce chamizo.


De chamizo y india sale cambuja.


De indio y cambuja nace lobo-torna-atras.


De lobo-torna-atrás y india sale tente en el aire.


De albarrado y india nace cachimboreta.

If anybody has anymore questions, just ask.
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Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 04-02-2010 at 12:43 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-26-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

they had a name for everybody and everything

to the spanish - it was all about the bloodline
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Old 01-26-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaChavela
they had a name for everybody and everything

to the spanish - it was all about the bloodline
Yes it was. It gets pretty bad after that on what they can't or can't do. For example, lets say, a native woman got married to a Spaniard and they had a mestizo. Even if they lived in the native community, the mestizo child is not allowed to wear native clothing. I feel like this part of history affected Mexicans the most on what is Mexico of today.

Funny part is this is just a small part to the original caste pics. There's a total of 100 different classification, but these are the most "common".
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Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 01-26-2007 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 01-26-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

I loved those pictures - so beautiful. But why was that one man killing the woman?
Yes, I agree it was very distructive to Mexico to bring that kind of caste system. and its sad that many people still adhere to it.
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  #5  
Old 01-26-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Honestly, I don't see how it can not be confusing... What a system of control.
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Old 01-27-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

WOW!!! I didn't know there were so many names for this.

Thanks very much Tec, you sure work hard on this I wish you would teach and that I was close enough to take classes.
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Old 01-27-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indira
WOW!!! I didn't know there were so many names for this.

Thanks very much Tec, you sure work hard on this I wish you would teach and that I was close enough to take classes.

jijiji.. This is! Online Independant Study. Tec's class 101. But the good thing is, there are not term papers to write..
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Old 01-27-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaChavela
I loved those pictures - so beautiful. But why was that one man killing the woman?
cause she took her man!

How did those two white people have a black baby??? (i think someone was cheating )

lol, just playin, thanks for the pictures.
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Last edited by LatinKing; 01-27-2007 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 01-27-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Hey Tec,

When you have time, could you put a sub heading under each drawing that has the text typed of what is contained in the drawing's text. I had a hard time reading some of the text because of the fancy font they wrote in was sometimes written to closely together and 1 or 2 drawings was chopped off at the bottom of the page.
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Old 01-29-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Adding up on this thread ...

It was still common to the beginning of the 20th century to be assigned your corresponding caste in the birth certificate here in Mexico.

Many grandfathers or greatgrandfathers here in Mexico still have or at least remember those birth certificates. I believe that until last century, the complicated caste system was reduced to a blunt biracial system. So that is why almost all Mexican grandfathers or greatgrandfathers have a "Indio" tag in their birth certificate. The fewer have a "Español" tag.

It would say, for instance: El niño Jose Garcia nacio indio el 23 de Marzo de 1912.
(The boy Jose Garcia was born indian the 23rd of March of 1912.

Imagine that!
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  #11  
Old 01-29-2007
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TlacuiloPilo
Adding up on this thread ...

It was still common to the beginning of the 20th century to be assigned your corresponding caste in the birth certificate here in Mexico.

Many grandfathers or greatgrandfathers here in Mexico still have or at least remember those birth certificates. I believe that until last century, the complicated caste system was reduced to a blunt biracial system. So that is why almost all Mexican grandfathers or greatgrandfathers have a "Indio" tag in their birth certificate. The fewer have a "Español" tag.

It would say, for instance: El niño Jose Garcia nacio indio el 23 de Marzo de 1912.
(The boy Jose Garcia was born indian the 23rd of March of 1912.

Imagine that!
True. Except where I'm from they got a little more political correct. My grandfather on my mom (her dad)'s side says 'indigena pura' and my mom's side says 'indigena mezclada con blanca' since my grandmother is white.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs mouse
jijiji.. This is! Online Independant Study. Tec's class 101. But the good thing is, there are not term papers to write..
That reminds me. I need a paper from you guys by Friday. LOL. JK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralo El Dorado
Hey Tec,

When you have time, could you put a sub heading under each drawing that has the text typed of what is contained in the drawing's text. I had a hard time reading some of the text because of the fancy font they wrote in was sometimes written to closely together and 1 or 2 drawings was chopped off at the bottom of the page.
I wrote below the drawing, what it says.
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpaocelotl
True. Except where I'm from they got a little more political correct. My grandfather on my mom (her dad)'s side says 'indigena pura' and my mom's side says 'indigena mezclada con blanca' since my grandmother is white.
Interesting, do you keep those documents?

I have documented some cases, as in your grandmother, were light tanned or just white skinned Mexicans were categorized as "Español" instead. I suppose that they based their decision on "How the child looked" rather as what race or caste.

It should also be said that many indigenous were not so tanned, but some lighter or even resembled white skin. Such is the case of what Spaniards in the Conquest called as "noble" families. They describe nobles or higher status indigenous as being as light as a Spaniard. Which is true, since there are many ancient stories about beautiful maidens whose white skin was a special characteristic.
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  #13  
Old 01-30-2007
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TlacuiloPilo
Interesting, do you keep those documents?

I have documented some cases, as in your grandmother, were light tanned or just white skinned Mexicans were categorized as "Español" instead. I suppose that they based their decision on "How the child looked" rather as what race or caste.

It should also be said that many indigenous were not so tanned, but some lighter or even resembled white skin. Such is the case of what Spaniards in the Conquest called as "noble" families. They describe nobles or higher status indigenous as being as light as a Spaniard. Which is true, since there are many ancient stories about beautiful maidens whose white skin was a special characteristic.
Yeah. My mom has those documents. She has saved everything on us. I thought it was weird until I found this article:

http://www.soychicano.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18775

I wonder if the documents saying my grandmother is white is true. I know it would tick her off if I find out otherwise. LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUGZ93266
What Is The Point To All This? IS THIS FACT? IF SO WHERE IS YOUR SOURCE?
The point is to show what happened during colonial period and to show that it caused something psychological damage to many of our people. I believe that many things that our people do (good or bad.) is because of the past. All we can do is learn about it (good and bad) and figure out how to change/prevent it for the better. For example, why are some Mexicans think they are better just by the skin color and/or race. Answer: it was the belief that the Spanish gave us. Evidence is this. Another is why are some Mexicans males Machistas. Answer: It was something the Spanish brought over. Right now, since I'm working long hours and getting out late, all I can do, for now, is educate people.

These paintings are known as Pinturas de Casta.

Funny part is I have more information here than there is on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta

Also, I found the last paintings that I'm missing. So I updated the 1st post.

Love the questions.
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

i remember seeing this in a class once... reading bout the names...

this is crazy....


thanks tec.
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
i remember seeing this in a class once... reading bout the names...

this is crazy....


thanks tec.
I finally found the last two so all the paintings (not all the labels. There's a total of 100 labels. That would too many paintings. LOL.) will be there.
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  #16  
Old 01-30-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

i like the torno atras ones...oh and the ahi estas one i always found those very amusing.
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Old 02-07-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

I just read a lil something about it.

It was introduced in the 18th century, as part of the Bourbon reforms (Bourbon is the name of the royal family that ruled Spain after the death of Charles II, a Habsbourg, and the end of the War of Succession in 1713)

It was introduced in order to remedy what the spanish crown viwed as "blurred" racial divisions.
It meant a greater numder of categories and a more complex hierarchisation of those categories.

There were possibilities of going up : from mestiso to castiza, and from castisa back to the category of espanol, for example

and similarily, there were possibilities of going down.

Also, mestisos, mulatos or other categories, if wealthy enough, could, and did, buy certificates of whiteness to the crown.

Pretty fucked up, eh.
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Old 02-07-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelito21 View Post
I just read a lil something about it.

It was introduced in the 18th century, as part of the Bourbon reforms (Bourbon is the name of the royal family that ruled Spain after the death of Charles II, a Habsbourg, and the end of the War of Succession in 1713)

It was introduced in order to remedy what the spanish crown viwed as "blurred" racial divisions.
It meant a greater numder of categories and a more complex hierarchisation of those categories.

There were possibilities of going up : from mestiso to castiza, and from castisa back to the category of espanol, for example

and similarily, there were possibilities of going down.

Also, mestisos, mulatos or other categories, if wealthy enough, could, and did, buy certificates of whiteness to the crown.

Pretty fucked up, eh.
all this is true....
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Of course its true. what else did u expect from me? lol
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  #20  
Old 02-08-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Hey Tec thanks for typing up the subtitles
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  #21  
Old 04-02-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

The Spanish have never gotten over being ruled by the Moors and seem to have some problems with that part of their history to this day. I'm sure they were happy to #~<* up the lives of black and brown people in the Americas.
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Old 04-02-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralo El Dorado View Post
Hey Tec thanks for typing up the subtitles
You're welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigon View Post
The Spanish have never gotten over being ruled by the Moors and seem to have some problems with that part of their history to this day. I'm sure they were happy to #~<* up the lives of black and brown people in the Americas.
What this caused was a psychological thing that still happens today. That light is better than dark.
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Old 04-02-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

that doesnt just come from spain's history of being conquered by the moors... it also comes from the history of europe and how people from the iberian peninsula were/are viewed as inferior to those northern/western europeans.
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  #24  
Old 04-02-2007
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Default Re: Caste System

Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelito21 View Post
I just read a lil something about it.

It was introduced in the 18th century, as part of the Bourbon reforms (Bourbon is the name of the royal family that ruled Spain after the death of Charles II, a Habsbourg, and the end of the War of Succession in 1713)

It was introduced in order to remedy what the spanish crown viwed as "blurred" racial divisions.
It meant a greater numder of categories and a more complex hierarchisation of those categories.

There were possibilities of going up : from mestiso to castiza, and from castisa back to the category of espanol, for example

and similarily, there were possibilities of going down.

Also, mestisos, mulatos or other categories, if wealthy enough, could, and did, buy certificates of whiteness to the crown.

Pretty fucked up, eh.

Yeah having self-hate and denial of one's tribal ancestry sucks. What you said was good stuff and here did you get your info from so I can read more on this?
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  #25  
Old 04-27-2008
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Default Re: Caste System

Fucking Spaniards man the original haters. . .Slavery. . .(In a sarcastic sports commnetator's commercial radio voice). . . .Brought to you by the original OG mutha fuckn Spaniards. . .and sold to the fucking high handed uptight, suedo oppulent freedom is only for fair skinned people. . . . . .British. . .

Caste system is brutually fucked. . .I do not care where it was. . .Japanese with non Japanese . . .Imperialst Europeans Monarchies who spread that shit around the world to the Orient, India, Africa, Americas. . .

God Bless America The Land of the Free and Home of the Brave . . .for Liberty and Justice for ALLL . . .ALLL Mutha Fuckas. . .ALLLL. . .

Im Out.
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