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  #1  
Old 11-27-2003
Mueller88 Mueller88 is offline
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Default How deos it feel

to know that you support a movement that advocates the destruction of the great country that America once was by supporting illegal immigration which deos nothing but take jobs away from labor worker and the U.s. and gives it to some mexicans that are nothing buy "unskilled" workers, therefore destroying any honest mans minnimum wage labor job.

Also the "Native" race has 99% of all genes that whites have, and that may seem like a lot, but but humans share 98% of genes with chimps and something like 75% with yeast so genetically there is a huge diffrence in the races.

As for intelligence, look at the book "The bell Curve" written by a non-racist, also the book "Race, Evolution, and behavior" which explains the culture and intelligence diffrences between races. In case you were wondering the tests always go in the order Black,"chicano", white, Asian also note that although Asians score higher in intelligence tests than whites, almost all important inventions and advancements come from whites.
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2003
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well, let me see, how do i feel?
my name is brandon ray johnson, i am a chicano german, and i feel damn good, not just good, but damn good. i feel as if i hold the world in my hands, and have all the answers to the world. how do i feel supporting such a thing, very much similar. i don't believe in ownership, and considering i am intelligent enough that i can literally walk out my door, and find five jobs in a day, i don't feel any threat to who i am, or my financial future, due to the immigration thing. personally, i say, open all the damn gates, let everyone in, that is what america is to me, a haven, for all people. that is what my ancestors sacraficed themselves for, and all of the americans today, owe my ancestors a great deal of gratitude.

as for me, i don't believe in security anyways, so, i really can't feel threatened. Great Country named America? well, let me analyze this, have you ever researched the actual history of america? for if you have, you will see that it was built on corruption, and greed, only to hide the majorities eyes, so that we couldn't see what was going on. but i opened my eyes long ago, and i saw what america is ,and was, and will be, and could be.

genetics? really, how about this, did you know that i know everything you know, and you know everything that i know, and that we reflect each other? we share more than genetics my friend, all in life is joined, and will never be separated. i don't believe america could be destroyed, only built upon, and recreated. america today, must change, that is my movement, to change the face of america, so that my children will know the life of freedom, and happiness. my movement does not segregate, or hate, or individualize, or centralize, my movement is that of acceptance, and life, and order, and chaos, and all that one can not understand unless they understand themselves, that is what i preach, we will understand who we are. and that is what is important.

mexica tiauhi,
mituyake oyosin,
tlazo canali
ipalnemauhani,
in lak etch,
opus dei,
vaya con dios,
be one with all.

how does that make you feel?
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2003
Mueller88 Mueller88 is offline
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The fact that you said that you see America as a haven, and then said that it is a country of greed and corruption is hypcrotical and just stupid. Don't assume you know more about genetics than me, you have no idea. Also you completely avioded the facts about intelligence and importance in the world. yes, lets open the borders to everyone and destroy the economy.
WE COULD BE THE NEXT BRAZIL!
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  #4  
Old 11-27-2003
Mueller88 Mueller88 is offline
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Be back later
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  #5  
Old 11-27-2003
Orale! Orale! is offline
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great, come back as soon as you can.
no, i don't know dick about genetics, dont really care either.

ok, yes, my comment was hypocritical, it was supposed to be, i said that the foundation of america was greed and corruption, but, it does serve as a haven to people who don't know. not to mention, it has been a haven throughout the past five hundred years, for which all walks of life have come to live upon. i don't like what america is founded on,i like what it could someday be.

asians score regularly higher than whites, due to environment, they are usually brought up by parents who are demanding too much out of their kid, signing them up for piano, violen, quantum physics, and tai kwon jujitsu all at the age of three. ok, that is why they get higher scores, they have been bread to be better than the best. same thing with black people in america, they usually tend to be better at sports than the other races because during the slave years, black alpha males, or bucks, were bread with the cream of the crop black women, i forgot what they called them. they did this for a superior worker, it just turns out they made some of the best athaletes in the world. intelligence is not limited to and entire group of people though, i can score higher on my tests than asians any day, and i know this, argue for your limitations, and you will have them, you know what i mean?

economy? i am a neo cynic, don't care about the economy, i say, let it fall, let the halls of wall street, and the towers of money crumble. but that is just my own personal preference.
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2003
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well mueller, good thing for u Nemi is not around. i know he would have answered u much better than me, but i'll try anyway. (excuse me if sometimes what i say is not clear its because i dont speak english that good).

First, about those illegal immigrants, those unskilled workers u talked about. those "parasites" that destroy this so-called great country of yours. do u realize that they r probably one of the best things that happened to US economy ?

why ? because like most countries now, USA is a captalist country (some also say imperialist but i think it comes along with capitalism). and capitalism is based on the exploitation of poor unconscious ( not ignorant !! its very different) masses of people, who do not share the wealth created by their labor. Instead, profits are used to maintain a high standard of living for an elite few. the more people their is to exploit, the better the economy goes. believe me this system loves illegal immigrants, although nobody wants to admit it.

And about this GREAT coutry of yours ... oh yeah USA is a great country. its the richest country of the world. its so great that it cant even provide free health and education to everyone. its so great that 19% of the people there live under the poverty line (this number includes only people who r legal ). its so great that its education system is full of lies ( a "12 step brainwash program" -Dead Prez) .
its so great that it needs to organise golpes de estado (sorry i dunno the english word for that) and install military dictatorships in other countries in order to keep the control of a region. document urself about the northwood operation or about the mangoose operation, you'll see how great your counrty is. this great country where more than 11000 people die every year of gun murder.
yeah, what a great country. i wish i lived there.

About this genetic thing... yeah we all, as humans, share more than 99% of genes in common. but did u know one thing.... one thing that probably wasn't said in your non-racist books

did u know that for example, a man from Tchad and a man from Rwanda (both black, therefore both of the same "race" ) do not have more in common with eachother than with a man from Germany. thats a scientific fact. a fact that is still denied by many people (mostly from white fascist groups....i wonder why ...), but that is confirmed by more and more scientifics.

And something else... about genetics......

u wanna make us believe that some "races" are more intelligent than others, certainly thanks to better genes right?

then tell me something ...twins (who have exactly the same genes) that didn't grow up in the same social environment always get different (and many times very different) scores at those so-called "intelligence tests" . and how come in most cases, its the one who grew up in the wealthier (i dunno if thats the correct word though, sorry) social environment who gets the best score ? (those are facts by the way, not opinions) would that mean that intelligence does not depend on your genes ?

oh noooo , cause i guess it would destroy your whole theory which pretends that some "races" are more intelligent than others.
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2003
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True ignorance shines through your post Mueller88. Before you come and accuse make sure to truly gain knowledge of genuine facts before you spew your hate.

People, do not give this person the contentment of wasting your time. If he/she in fact wanted to learn, his/hers post would have been different. All this person wants is a reaction.
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2003
Mueller88 Mueller88 is offline
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In reply...

Quote:
"asians score regularly higher than whites, due to environment, they are usually brought up by parents who are demanding too much out of their kid, signing them up for piano, violen, quantum physics, and tai kwon jujitsu all at the age of three. ok, that is why they get higher scores, they have been bread to be better than the best. same thing with black people in america, they usually tend to be better at sports than the other races because during the slave years, black alpha males, or bucks, were bread with the cream of the crop black women, i forgot what they called them. they did this for a superior worker, it just turns out they made some of the best athaletes in the world. intelligence is not limited to and entire group of people though, i can score higher on my tests than asians any day, and i know this, argue for your limitations, and you will have them, you know what i mean? "
No it wasn't breeding as you suggest, it was the enviornment that they evolved in, which is why people from those areas are also great athletes (ex. Kenyan runners)

Quote:
economy? i am a neo cynic, don't care about the economy, i say, let it fall, let the halls of wall street, and the towers of money crumble. but that is just my own personal preference.
that is because you are unaware of the consequences.

Quote:
why ? because like most countries now, USA is a captalist country (some also say imperialist but i think it comes along with capitalism). and capitalism is based on the exploitation of poor unconscious ( not ignorant !! its very different) masses of people, who do not share the wealth created by their labor. Instead, profits are used to maintain a high standard of living for an elite few. the more people their is to exploit, the better the economy goes. believe me this system loves illegal immigrants, although nobody wants to admit it.
No the bosses love immigrants, not the middle class working American.

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:23 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

well mueller, good thing for u Nemi is not around. i know he would have answered u much better than me, but i'll try anyway. (excuse me if sometimes what i say is not clear its because i dont speak english that good).

First, about those illegal immigrants, those unskilled workers u talked about. those "parasites" that destroy this so-called great country of yours. do u realize that they r probably one of the best things that happened to US economy ?

why ? because like most countries now, USA is a captalist country (some also say imperialist but i think it comes along with capitalism). and capitalism is based on the exploitation of poor unconscious ( not ignorant !! its very different) masses of people, who do not share the wealth created by their labor. Instead, profits are used to maintain a high standard of living for an elite few. the more people their is to exploit, the better the economy goes. believe me this system loves illegal immigrants, although nobody wants to admit it.
Quote:
And about this GREAT coutry of yours ... oh yeah USA is a great country. its the richest country of the world. its so great that it cant even provide free health and education to everyone. its so great that 19% of the people there live under the poverty line (this number includes only people who r legal ). its so great that its education system is full of lies ( a "12 step brainwash program" -Dead Prez) . its so great that it needs to organise golpes de estado (sorry i dunno the english word for that) and install military dictatorships in other countries in order to keep the control of a region. document urself about the northwood operation or about the mangoose operation, you'll see how great your counrty is. this great country where more than 11000 people die every year of gun murder.
yeah, what a great country. i wish i lived there.
then don't live here, please.
As for those dictatorships, all of those countries would be strife with civil war without those, yes, oppressive governments. And almost all of gun crime comes from blacks and *gasp* immigrants.

Quote:
did u know that for example, a man from Tchad and a man from Rwanda (both black, therefore both of the same "race" ) do not have more in common with eachother than with a man from Germany. thats a scientific fact. a fact that is still denied by many people (mostly from white fascist groups....i wonder why ...), but that is confirmed by more and more scientifics.
Skin color deos not define race. Skin color is a very small fraction of race, it is usually a reflection of where in that world that persons ancestors evolved, most of the time, so in fact that has nothing to do with what i said.

Quote:
then tell me something ...twins (who have exactly the same genes) that didn't grow up in the same social environment always get different (and many times very different) scores at those so-called "intelligence tests" . and how come in most cases, its the one who grew up in the wealthier (i dunno if thats the correct word though, sorry) social environment who gets the best score ? (those are facts by the way, not opinions) would that mean that intelligence does not depend on your genes ?
bolth books i suggested explain that. and yes Rich whites score better than rich blacks, poor whites score better than poor blacks, etc. And actually experiments with twins has suggested the exact opposite of what you said, they usually score very close to each other regardless of backrounds. Also didd you know that a person with two natural criminal parents is more likely to commit a crime thanif an adopted persons adopted parents were criminals. And those average poor asians coming over from china and such also on average get better scores than most whites and almost all blacks and mexicans.
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2003
Orale! Orale! is offline
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actually, it was breeding, yes, people are accustomed to their evironment, but, you will also find, that there are people that are better acclamated to their environment than others, that is the whole point of courting and mating, to find the best possible mate to pass on the genetics to. anyways, yeah, i know my truth, and you know yours, so, i will go my separate ways. be happy. or, what have you.
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  #10  
Old 11-27-2003
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ok im sorry i dont know the technique to quote, but i'll try to make it clear anyway.

" Skin color deos not define race. Skin color is a very small fraction of race, it is usually a reflection of where in that world that persons ancestors evolved, most of the time, so in fact that has nothing to do with what i said."

well, when u talk about whites being more intelligent than blacks, it is exactly how u define race, with their skin colour.


" As for those dictatorships, all of those countries would be strife with civil war without those, yes, oppressive governments."

man, u really dont know shit about the history of those countries do u ? its like the gov gave u some propaganda book and u ate it all.

cause there were no civil wars in south america. there were revolutions to free the people from political, economical and sometimes military repression. repression that was accepted and clearly sustained (i dunno if its the right word, i mean apoyada ) by the USA cause those governments served he US interests.
but then the people were tired of it. and in the 60s began the decade of the revolutions. revolutions that would free these countries from the US imperialism.
but of course this great country of yours could not accept that. so began the decade of the dictatorships. in Chile (yeah, the sadly famous dictatorship of general Pinochet was entirely conceived and made possible by the CIA and its not even a secret anymore), Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Brasil Central America...... all of those dictatorships were installed by the US gov thanks to the CIA.

and not in order to protect the people who lived there, cause those dictatorships killed thousands of innocent people. but just to protect the US economical interests..... in the name of the holly monroe doctrine.....

but this side of american history u don't find in the school books of course. they tell u these countries needed help to maintain security and peace for the people. yeah right.
but hey its true that if u kill thousands of innocent poeple there wont be much resitance because people will be too damn scared to open their mouth. well CIA knew that from experience, so that what they trained the dictators to do. good move. it kinda worked.


" bolth books i suggested explain that [....] "

yeah well something is not true just because its written in a book. good thing cause otherwise what hitler said in mein kampf would be true. it would be kinda scary. and hopefully whats written in those so-called scientific neo-fascist books that you very kindly suggested, isn't true either.

And u know, ive been receiving for the past 2years two emails a week from a white fascit group called action directe (direct action in french) exposing pretty much the same argumens that u exposed here. so i know what u saying,i know what u talking about. and i know its not true.
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Old 11-27-2003
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Quote:
to know that you support a movement that advocates the destruction of the great country that America once was by supporting illegal immigration which deos nothing but take jobs away from labor worker and the U.s. and gives it to some mexicans that are nothing buy "unskilled" workers, therefore destroying any honest mans minnimum wage labor job.
This country was built on the blood, sweat and tears of immigrants. You know who supports illegal immigration? The companies who want slave labor and would rather pay pennies on the dollar to a Mexican who is just trying to make an honest living for their family. White "unskilled" men would rather sit on the couch, collect unemployment and complain how illegal immigrants are taking all of their jobs.

You obviously know nothing but racism and ignorance. Everything you wrote is pure white supremacy propaganda. Same words -- different asshole.
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  #12  
Old 11-28-2003
Mueller88 Mueller88 is offline
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Quote:
well, when u talk about whites being more intelligent than blacks, it is exactly how u define race, with their skin colour.
No! that is a term to describe them, and again skin color deos not define race, take the Michael Jackson for example, he is still "black" but his skin is white,

And Some countries America gave aid to were to combat drugs that the rebels were using to fund their movements (but then again you must support drugs, right?) and don't pretend to know everything behind those conflicts, i don't and you don't

Quote:
This country was built on the blood, sweat and tears of immigrants. You know who supports illegal immigration? The companies who want slave labor and would rather pay pennies on the dollar to a Mexican who is just trying to make an honest living for their family. White "unskilled" men would rather sit on the couch, collect unemployment and complain how illegal immigrants are taking all of their jobs.
I wasn't aware that taking jobs, living of wellfare, flooding public schools, bankrupting hospitals and hurting the overall economy built countries.

Quote:
yeah well something is not true just because its written in a book. good thing cause otherwise what hitler said in mein kampf would be true. it would be kinda scary. and hopefully whats written in those so-called scientific neo-fascist books that you very kindly suggested, isn't true either.
I bet you know nothing about what was written in Mein kampf
regardless...bolth books were written by proffesors, one with an award named after him, similiar articles as seen in those books also apeared in many scientific journals (non-"racist" ones)
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Old 11-28-2003
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actually, it was breeding, yes, people are accustomed to their evironment, but, you will also find, that there are people that are better acclamated to their environment than others, that is the whole point of courting and mating, to find the best possible mate to pass on the genetics to. anyways, yeah, i know my truth, and you know yours, so, i will go my separate ways. be happy. or, what have you.
Yes and this process took place for thousands of years in seperate continents. Humans evolved or "breeded" to the souroundings. thats where you get Asians and whites who mature slower (proven) but there is more natural instict to raise fewer young, but raise them carefully, also to build better more advanced cities to deal with the cold temperatures in winter of East Asia and I believe Eastern or northern Europe.

As for Blacks, the temperature stays relatively constant and the need to build advanced infastructure never developed. Thats why blacks usually have larger families and more aggresivness, it was a survival tactic for living in Africa.
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  #14  
Old 11-28-2003
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Mueller88,

What is your point in joining a Chicano forum? Tell me. I am really not interested in reading the filth that leaks from your mind.
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  #15  
Old 11-28-2003
Mueller88 Mueller88 is offline
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yes "filth" is it?

but know, that this entire movement is only hastening the destruction of one of the last majorly white countries, similar things are happening with the Arabs going into Europe

But the overall point is that you people should stay in your country built by your ancestors, and we'll gladly stay in ours (hell, I'd even give you Texas and California if you would leave the rest of the country if it was up to me.)
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Old 11-28-2003
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Social Darwinism could be used to explain why America could create puppet govrnments and still be "great"
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2003
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O.K. Herr Mueller; you asked for it , you got it!

You poor ignorant fool.

Yes ignorant!

You apparently see life as a victim and are only sounding off here on our website with your racist, ferarful views and pompous attitude knowing you can hide.

You can hide in your little room, with your little computer and make attempts to sound intelligent but it is evident you know squat !.

Did "minority" children pick on you and take your lunch money when you were a kid ?

You seem to be brainwashed by hate and fear.

Are you afraid of us ?

Is your little lily white middle-class, "Leave it to Beaver" world coming apart ?

Your mind seems to be stuck in a scene from "American History X".

Wake up and smell the Champurrado !

We have always been here.

This was our land before your foreign, diseased, greedy, smelly barbaric ancestors came across on termite ridden, rat infested boats.

AND 1,000 years from now it will still be our land.

So why don't you face reality.

Don't you know brainwashing your head with garbage like "Mein Kamf" will get you punked ? !

Out here in the real world, you are the "minority".

Don't you realize the sun is setting on the white man ?

Every time you come onto our forums and spew your hate, I'm gonna be all over you like frijoles on tortillas!

If you would just stop hating and humble yourself a bit.

Think !!

I've come on strong here for a reason.

Human to human, regardless of your bias views; you are still my brother.

Contrary to what you think, you don't know very much.

Anyone can sound intelligent.

You certainly don't know anything about Chicanos.

Drop the bigotry and we may find common ground.

We all have unique ways of being, of expression.

Our own opinions, but open your mind a bit, you might learn something.

You probably don't know very many "Hispanics". (I dislike that term but you understand my point)

Communicate as we all wish to be treated.

Don't come to us with your twisted logic, talk crap about our people and then expect us to thank you for your enlightenment.

And we don' t need you to give us our states back, they already belong to us.

This is MY HOOD!!

MY COUNTRY!!

So love it or go back to Europe!!

"APACHE"

P.S.

Next time you have a meal; give thanks to those who through their labor have given, so that we all can have food on our table.
(I seriously doubt those hands of labor were white)

P.S.S.

LEARN SPANISH!!
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2003
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alright, now i am just as pissed off as my apache friend here, what the flying fook? aadhflkasdfoipqhwer09f son of a bitch. ok, ok

go home? we have been here for fifty thousand years, this is our home. give us california, and texas, have been to either state? we own both of them already. we let you live here, and that seems to be coming to an end soon my friend.

have you ever seen fight club? well, you situation is very similar to that politician who almost got his cajones whacked off. to quote the movie in a different way, we cook your food, we clean your car, we wash your clothes, but we are also state senators, and politicians, and lawyers, and doctors, we are the infrastructure of this country, you need us, not the other way around. i gotta go, too much manipulation have you done me.
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2003
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omg! you talk about races as if it was type of animal that you breed!! Damn! Mexicans, Blacks, and chinese aren't dogs, their humans, just as intellegent, and deserving as any other race! Mexicans dont' come into the united states to take anybody's job away, that's just a racist comment right there. Besides that, if it wasn't for Mexicans coming into the united states, who'd be doing the jobs that all you lazy f@^#% aren't willing to do? Times change, and hell yeah this countries going to change with it. White people snagged countries as if it belonged to them in the first place, lifes a bitch, it all comes back to you, and now your getting your country snagged from you! We're just taking what was ours in the first place. I better end this forum here, because I'm getting to pissed reading forums that ignorant people post up. later
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mueller88
But the overall point is that you people should stay in your country built by your ancestors, and we'll gladly stay in ours (hell, I'd even give you Texas and California if you would leave the rest of the country if it was up to me.)
You see, it's people like you that causes so many Chicanos out there to build up hatred inside of them. However, we’ve learned to adapt. More and more of us are learning that in order to overcome this hatred you have against us is to get an education, learn the rules and beat you in your own game.

You’ll gladly stay in your own country huh? Newsflash! This isn't a white country anymore. We have a variety of ethnic backgrounds here. Many of which are as much of a US citizen as you are. Asians, blacks, Mexicans, middle-easterns, we are all a part of this country. Why is that so hard to understand?

As much as you white supremacists would like to think this country is yours, it simple no longer is. I am sorry to break the news to you. But you had to hear it sooner or later.

Perhaps you didn't pay much attention in history class. Or maybe you are living in denial. This country was founded on immigration. Your ancestors swarmed this country in boats. Have you forgotten this?

We aren't going anywhere, why should we? Most of us are citizens, were born, raised and have lived here, all of our lives. What makes you so fucking special, that you can tell any of us to go back to our country. This is our country, whether you like it or not.

Truth is, you are not special. Being an ignorant white supremacist gives you no right to tell anyone to go back to his or her country. Just like being a Chicano gives me no right to tell you to go back to your mother country in Europe because unfortunately you are also a part of this country (as much as it hurts for me to say that)

Learn to deal with the fact that we will never leave. We are here to stay. And there is nobody in your group (including your dumbass) that will kick any of us out. So go ahead, live in your white, rich neighborhoods. But don't be shocked when more and more brown doctors & lawyers start moving in next to you.
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  #21  
Old 11-28-2003
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Sorry it took so long for me to reply but...

to say that you guys are what holds this country together is just plain stupid. Any body who knows anything about economics can tell you that all of the immigrants coming into America are harming the economy. Check the center for immigration studies to see. Yes this may have been your land, but it wasnt your country, this country was built by whites, yes immigrants did a lot of the labor, but not most of it by far. Show me some evidence of the "help" that you give this country. I would like to see it.

And humans are basically just intelligent mammals. We also have seperate branches so to speak and we too are built with genetics. Our genes dictate everything from aggressivness to brain size.

Contrary to your beliefs, there are many Americans in the buisnesses that illegal immigrants partake in (labor etc.)

And for the record i live in S. Calfornia, I see your kind every day
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2003
Mueller88 Mueller88 is offline
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I never said "chicanos " messed up America, i said they are a determent to it.
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  #23  
Old 11-29-2003
Mueller88 Mueller88 is offline
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It's funny how I'm "talking out of my ass" or I am "ignorant" when I'm the only one with biological data and actual facts being presented.

And the original americans were colonists, not immigrants.
Being immigrants implies that they joined an already existing country which was not the case. Also almost no "immigrants" came to America for over 100 years untill after the revolutionary war, and they were doing just fine.

And the book: "Race, Evolution, and behavior" is a non-biased, very well published in many countries book. It explains things way better than I ever could.
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  #24  
Old 11-29-2003
Mueller88 Mueller88 is offline
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Tired & Poor:
Bankrupt Arguments for Mass, Unskilled Immigration

By Steven A. Camarota

National Review

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Talks in August involving Secretary of State Powell, Attorney General Ashcroft, and their Mexican counterparts may have produced the broad outline of an immigration agreement. It would involve a two-step amnesty, first rechristening the approximately 4 million Mexicans illegally in the U.S. as "temporary" workers, then giving them permanent residence after a period of indenture of perhaps three to five years. Even more workers would then be imported from Mexico as "temporary" workers, and would eventually receive green cards.

Most critics of this amnesty have focused on the fact that it rewards lawbreakers and mocks the law-abiding; others have argued that there is no moral reason for singling out Mexicans at the expense of other nationalities. While these are reasonable objections, few commentators have asked the larger question: Is mass unskilled immigration from Mexico really good for the U.S.? In a new study, the Center for Immigration Studies uses the latest Census Bureau data to examine the prevalent assumptions surrounding this issue-and they turn out to be myths.

Their justification for unskilled immigration is, "Who else will clean my pool?" And it contains a kernel of truth, with regard to Mexican immigration. About two-thirds of all Mexican immigrants are high-school dropouts, and only 4 percent have a college degree. During the 1990s, Mexican immigration increased the number of dropouts in the U.S. workforce by 11 percent, while increasing the supply of all other workers by only half a percentage point. Thus, the effect of Mexican immigration on wages is confined to unskilled workers. Since the vast majority of natives have completed high school and are employed in higher-skilled occupations, most natives don't face significant job competition from Mexican immigrants.

But there's still a problem: More than 10 million adult native-born American workers lack a high-school education, and they are in direct competition with unskilled immigrants. The vast majority of Mexican immigrants work in such jobs: busboy, pool cleaner, and so on. These jobs are still overwhelmingly done by natives. The myth that immigrants only take jobs no one else wants persists primarily because middle-class Americans view most of these jobs as something they certainly would not want to do.


The increase in the supply of unskilled labor brought about by Mexican immigration reduced wages for high-school dropouts by about 5 percent in the 1990s-not so much because immigrants work for less and undercut natives (though that does happen), but rather because lower wages are an unavoidable byproduct of significantly increasing the supply of unskilled labor. It's basic economics: Increase the supply of something, and the price will fall.

The chief problem with lower wages for unskilled workers is that they are already the lowest paid; one need not be a liberal to acknowledge that beggaring the poor may contribute to social disharmony. It's true that these wage losses do not vanish into thin air: Lower wages for the poor should result in lower prices for consumers. But the savings are infinitesimal, precisely because unskilled workers earn such low wages to begin with. High-school dropouts account for less than 4 percent of total economic output. Thus, if Mexican immigration reduces wages for dropouts by 5 percent, prices for consumers are lowered by less than two-tenths of 1 percent. It is simply not possible for a high-tech economy like ours to derive large benefits from unskilled immigration.

Another myth has to do with welfare. While it is certainly true that the vast majority of Mexican immigrants come to work and not to use government services, there's also no question that very many end up using government services anyway. Even after welfare reform, 31 percent of all Mexican households in the U.S. use at least one major welfare program-double the 15 percent rate for natives. Clearly, one of the unintended consequences of an amnesty would almost certainly be to increase welfare costs still further.

Heavy use of welfare by Mexican immigrants stems not from moral defects or a lack of jobs, but rather from the very low incomes of Mexican immigrants. The modern American economy offers very limited opportunities for those with little education, and so poor workers or their children are often eligible for welfare programs, such as food stamps, public housing, or Medicaid.

Mexican immigrants also pay very little in taxes. By design, those with lower incomes pay much less in taxes than middle- and upper-class workers. This means that even if Mexican immigrants used welfare at the same rate as natives, they would still be a substantial drain on public coffers because their tax payments are dramatically lower.

While there is debate among researchers on the fiscal effects of immigrants overall, there is absolute consensus that immigrants with little education are a huge drain on the public budget. We at the Center for Immigration Studies estimate that the average Mexican immigrant will use $55,200 more in public services during his lifetime than he pays in taxes. In effect, Mexican immigration acts as a subsidy to businesses that employ unskilled workers, holding down labor costs while taxpayers pick up the tab for providing services to a much larger poor population. It's like any other subsidy: Businesses that receive it want it to continue, but for the nation as a whole, it's a bad deal.

Although the economic arguments against unskilled immigration are overwhelming, many advocates of an amnesty still defend it because they feel there is no alternative. But in fact, the problem isn't nearly as intractable as it may seem. The INS estimates that each year, 150,000 illegal aliens leave the country on their own, another 200,000 get green cards as part of the normal "legal" immigration process, 50,000 illegals are deported, and about 20,000 die. In sum, the illegal-alien population decreases by at least 400,000 people each year.

Of course, something like 600,000 new illegals arrive annually, and thus the total illegal population continues to grow. But the numbers leaving the illegal population are still huge; if we significantly reduce the number of new illegal aliens entering the country and increase (even if only modestly) the number who go home, the problem will largely take care of itself over time.

How do we do this? In the past, our efforts to control illegal immigration have focused almost exclusively on the border. While much remains to be done in this area, the real key to reducing illegal immigration is to cut illegals off from jobs. Unfortunately, the 1986 ban on hiring illegals has never been enforced. Although highly regarded pilot programs already exist, Congress has never provided funding to develop a national verification system that would enable employers to check quickly whether new hires have the right to work. Moreover, Congress has refused to increase funding for workplace enforcement, so we are left with an almost comical situation in which 300 INS inspectors attempt to enforce the ban on hiring the millions of illegals now in the country.

An integrated program of workplace enforcement and border control would cause a steady decline in the illegal population. Even the potential economic dislocation caused by such a policy would be minimal, since there is no possibility that all illegals will magically disappear overnight. This approach would increase wages for the poor, spur productivity gains, and protect American sovereignty. An amnesty, even if it's dressed up as a guest-worker program, can achieve none of these ends
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  #25  
Old 11-29-2003
Mueller88 Mueller88 is offline
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Quote:
Kinda sad actually.
you yook that out of context and failed to address the point of my remark.

The original Americans were colonists of England. They never Immigrated anywhere, they did not join another nation, they expanded an already existing one (England)


Main Entry: im·mi·grate
Pronunciation: 'i-m&-"grAt
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -grat·ed; -grat·ing
Etymology: Latin immigratus, past participle of immigrare to remove, go in, from in- + migrare to migrate
Date: circa 1623
intransitive senses : to enter and usually become established; especially : to come into a country of which one is not a native for permanent residence
transitive senses : to bring in or send as immigrants
- im·mi·gra·tion /"i-m&-'grA-sh&n/ noun
- im·mi·gra·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective


they didnt come to a country, they created one
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