Soy Chicano Forums

Go Back   Soy Chicano Forums > Identity/Culture/Race/Religion > Religion

Religion Discuss your opinoins, faiths, beliefs, doubts, and/or philosophy.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-01-2005
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,690
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default Juan Soldado

What is everyone's opinion on him? Also, why is Juan Soldado considered Chicano culture? I still haven't figured it out. My family has a pic of him on the wall when the door hides when someone opens it. I guess that who my family prays to other than La Virgin de Guadalupe.

I looked online for more info and all I found was this:
http://www.newarkmuseum.org/rascon/

The guy died in Tijuana and our people treat him like a saint even though the church doesn't recognized him. I think I been thinking of it since my family went to his chapel in TJ a couple of weeks ago.

More on Juan Soldado:
http://www.xicano.com/juansoldado/index.html

I think the lesson of the story is don't listen to your commanding officer when he gives you weird things to do.

Anyway, my conclusion is that since our parents promised Juan Soldado something, that they pass it to us and so it becomes Chicano culture.
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand

"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez

Last edited by tecpaocelotl; 09-13-2006 at 03:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-13-2006
FreedomNow's Avatar
FreedomNow FreedomNow is offline
Abstinent Attitude
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wood!
Posts: 23,572
Default Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

has neone ever heard of juan soldado? does neone believe in him as a saint?

the reason i ask this is b/c i just started reading a book on juan soldado..


it s pretty cool, written by a prof at san diego state....
__________________
If you´re not ready to die for it, put the word ´Freedom´ out of your vocabulary- El Hajj Malik Shabazz

...freedom's not a gift received from a State or a leader but a possession to be won every day by the effort of each and the union of all - Albert Camus

In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-13-2006
El_arriero's Avatar
El_arriero El_arriero is offline
A su servicio
Maestro
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 2,410
Send a message via Yahoo to El_arriero
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Looks like wikipedia has a nice entry on him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Soldado
__________________
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds."

Samuel Adams
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-13-2006
FreedomNow's Avatar
FreedomNow FreedomNow is offline
Abstinent Attitude
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wood!
Posts: 23,572
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

yeah... but i would like to hear some folks' thoughts... u know nething bout him>?

i had never heard of him growing up or in school... i just picked up this book and its really interesting...

Juan Soldado: Rapist, Murderer, Martyr, Saint

by Paul J. Vanderwood
__________________
If you´re not ready to die for it, put the word ´Freedom´ out of your vocabulary- El Hajj Malik Shabazz

...freedom's not a gift received from a State or a leader but a possession to be won every day by the effort of each and the union of all - Albert Camus

In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-13-2006
El_arriero's Avatar
El_arriero El_arriero is offline
A su servicio
Maestro
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 2,410
Send a message via Yahoo to El_arriero
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Never heard of him. I bet there must be a million folk saints out there. I never ran into this one before though.
__________________
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds."

Samuel Adams
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-13-2006
FreedomNow's Avatar
FreedomNow FreedomNow is offline
Abstinent Attitude
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wood!
Posts: 23,572
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

yeah... there r...
__________________
If you´re not ready to die for it, put the word ´Freedom´ out of your vocabulary- El Hajj Malik Shabazz

...freedom's not a gift received from a State or a leader but a possession to be won every day by the effort of each and the union of all - Albert Camus

In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-13-2006
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,690
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

I posted about this a while ago.

My parents are a firm believers of Juan Soldado. Once a year, we go to his tomb.
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand

"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2006
FreedomNow's Avatar
FreedomNow FreedomNow is offline
Abstinent Attitude
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wood!
Posts: 23,572
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

really??? can u post the link to the other thread?
__________________
If you´re not ready to die for it, put the word ´Freedom´ out of your vocabulary- El Hajj Malik Shabazz

...freedom's not a gift received from a State or a leader but a possession to be won every day by the effort of each and the union of all - Albert Camus

In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-13-2006
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,690
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default

//Topic Merged

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_arriero
Never heard of him. I bet there must be a million folk saints out there. I never ran into this one before though.
There's some parts of Mexico where Jesus has a twin.

Then there's Santa Muerte. That's practically everyone's fav which kind of goes with a history lesson along with it.

There was others (for example Juan Diego and Santo Toribio Romo), but they're saints now.

Then there's San Jenaro Sánchez Delgadillo, but my family have pics of him for personal reasons. We'll just say this story goes back 80 years ago.
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand

"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-13-2006
FreedomNow's Avatar
FreedomNow FreedomNow is offline
Abstinent Attitude
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wood!
Posts: 23,572
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

would u mind sharing? or is it personal?
__________________
If you´re not ready to die for it, put the word ´Freedom´ out of your vocabulary- El Hajj Malik Shabazz

...freedom's not a gift received from a State or a leader but a possession to be won every day by the effort of each and the union of all - Albert Camus

In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-13-2006
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,690
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
would u mind sharing? or is it personal?
Mind what? I can go on on stuff like this.
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand

"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-13-2006
FreedomNow's Avatar
FreedomNow FreedomNow is offline
Abstinent Attitude
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wood!
Posts: 23,572
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

the story about y ur family or how ur fam believe in juan soldado?
__________________
If you´re not ready to die for it, put the word ´Freedom´ out of your vocabulary- El Hajj Malik Shabazz

...freedom's not a gift received from a State or a leader but a possession to be won every day by the effort of each and the union of all - Albert Camus

In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-13-2006
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,690
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomNow
the story about y ur family or how ur fam believe in juan soldado?
There's not much to the story. My dad was raised in Jalisco, but raised in Tijuana so would go to the tomb. My mom has heard of it from my aunt as a child. It's the reason why my parents don't want me to be in the military. They think my commanding officer will screw me over. They think that's what happened with that white chick private soldier at guantamo bay.
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand

"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-13-2006
FreedomNow's Avatar
FreedomNow FreedomNow is offline
Abstinent Attitude
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wood!
Posts: 23,572
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

i c....
__________________
If you´re not ready to die for it, put the word ´Freedom´ out of your vocabulary- El Hajj Malik Shabazz

...freedom's not a gift received from a State or a leader but a possession to be won every day by the effort of each and the union of all - Albert Camus

In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-13-2006
PeteShotTheDeputy PeteShotTheDeputy is offline
Travieso
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Town LV
Posts: 352
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Wow, I just started a bit of a project about unoficial Saints. Started out as a crazy drinking binge, finding some money by a crossorad, and meeting San Simon. I've been talking to my dad about Jesus Malverde, kind of familiar with flacita too. I've never heard of Juan Soldado or San Jenaro Sánchez Delgadillo, any more links or stories you guys care to share?
__________________
"all I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi"- Suicidal Tendencies

"You know it's funny when it rains it pours
They got money for wars, but can't feed the poor
Say there ain't no hope for the youth and the truth is
it ain't no hope for tha future
And then they wonder why we crazy
I blame my mother, for turning my brother into a crack baby
We ain't meant to survive, cause it's a setup
And even though you're fed up
Huh, ya got to keep your head up" -Tupac Amaru Shakur
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-13-2006
GoldenArms's Avatar
GoldenArms GoldenArms is offline
Maestro
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: BIB's Cleavage, Population Me!
Posts: 3,021
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_arriero
Looks like wikipedia has a nice entry on him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Soldado
wikipedia isn't a very good source...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-13-2006
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,690
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteShotTheDeputy
Wow, I just started a bit of a project about unoficial Saints. Started out as a crazy drinking binge, finding some money by a crossorad, and meeting San Simon. I've been talking to my dad about Jesus Malverde, kind of familiar with flacita too. I've never heard of Juan Soldado or San Jenaro Sánchez Delgadillo, any more links or stories you guys care to share?
There are more links about them here:

Santa Muerte:

http://www.soychicano.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9996

Cristero War - Many priest, nuns, and soldiers would become unofficial saints, but within the last 90's and this decade, many have became saints:

http://www.soychicano.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1686
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand

"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-13-2006
PeteShotTheDeputy PeteShotTheDeputy is offline
Travieso
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Town LV
Posts: 352
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Thanks.

I remember reading the Sant Muerte thread. Met her in D.F. when I was like 9, but I've just started to make sense of that experience in the last 15 months or so. Going to look into that other thread too.
__________________
"all I wanted was a Pepsi, just one Pepsi"- Suicidal Tendencies

"You know it's funny when it rains it pours
They got money for wars, but can't feed the poor
Say there ain't no hope for the youth and the truth is
it ain't no hope for tha future
And then they wonder why we crazy
I blame my mother, for turning my brother into a crack baby
We ain't meant to survive, cause it's a setup
And even though you're fed up
Huh, ya got to keep your head up" -Tupac Amaru Shakur
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-10-2008
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,690
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

bump
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand

"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-12-2008
FreedomNow's Avatar
FreedomNow FreedomNow is offline
Abstinent Attitude
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wood!
Posts: 23,572
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

damn... i was like way cordial to u tec back then... then i met u...

__________________
If you´re not ready to die for it, put the word ´Freedom´ out of your vocabulary- El Hajj Malik Shabazz

...freedom's not a gift received from a State or a leader but a possession to be won every day by the effort of each and the union of all - Albert Camus

In the belly of misery convulses the fetus of rebellion - Ricardo Flores Magon
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-17-2008
Lonewolf's Avatar
Lonewolf Lonewolf is offline
Fresh Meat!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: THE BORDERLAND
Posts: 13
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Juan Soldado is buried en el panteon numero Dos en Tijuana. He has a tomb monument that serves like an altar. The walls inside and out are filled with letters and pictures of people who give thanks to him for miracles said to have been performed by him. The place is filled with candles. The tomb is very modest and is only the width and size of a small room. I don't really know the whole story, but from what I have heard say from my family and others is the same basics as those that you might have read already. He is said to have been wrongfully accused of raping and murdering a young girl, and subsequently stoned to death. The real culprit was said to have been his superior, but anyhow, when the real truth came to light, many people feeling guilty of having killed an innocent man began to visit his grave and light candles, plant flowers and say payers for him. Somehow, some people began to offer more than prayers, and in their plead for his forgiveness they began to ask of him favors. Miracles are said to have taken place when people devoutly asked of him and paid reverence to him, and so his visitors and his cult began to grow and expand, becoming very large in the decades that followed his death. I personally remember large crowds of people at the cemetery visiting his tomb and waiting in line. This was back in the late 1960s and early 1970s when I was still very young. We have family buried there, but today when I go there to take flowers and have some moments with my departed ones, I don't see nearly as many people nor visitors to la tumba de Juan Soldado as before, nowhere near like back in the day. I suppose the city has not only grown big in population, but it has become more modern, more cold with the times, where nobody really believes in miracles anymore. Where many give lip service to the old creencias, but don't really believe in them no more. The new miracle maker is plain and simple "El Dolar'. If you got dollars, you can make your own miracles happen. In this day and age even Las Iglesias are devoid of large numbers attending Misa, and those that you find in church on Sunday are mostly of an older age and those from the poor populace. Juan Soldado is from another age, from a past age when people todavia se tocaba el corazon, but today, in this day and age, Juan Soldado could be executed, shot to pieces and his head cut off, and the most he would get is a small news article on the next days paper, and soon there after forgotten about.
__________________

Last edited by Lonewolf; 11-17-2008 at 04:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-17-2008
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,690
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolf View Post
Juan Soldado is buried en el panteon numero Dos en Tijuana. He has a tomb monument that serves like an altar. The walls inside and out are filled with letters and pictures of people who give thanks to him for miracles said to have been performed by him. The place is filled with candles. The tomb is very modest and is only the width and size of a small room. I don't really know the whole story, but from what I have heard say from my family and others is the same basics as those that you might have read already. He is said to have been wrongfully accused of raping and murdering a young girl, and subsequently stoned to death. The real culprit was said to have been his superior, but anyhow, when the real truth came to light, many people feeling guilty of having killed an innocent man began to visit his grave and light candles, plant flowers and say payers for him. Somehow, some people began to offer more than prayers, and in their plead for his forgiveness they began to ask of him favors. Miracles are said to have taken place when people devoutly asked of him and paid reverence to him, and so his visitors and his cult began to grow and expand, becoming very large in the decades that followed his death. I personally remember large crowds of people at the cemetery visiting his tomb and waiting in line. This was back in the late 1960s and early 1970s when I was still very young. We have family buried there, but today when I go there to take flowers and have some moments with my departed ones, I don't see nearly as many people nor visitors to la tumba de Juan Soldado as before, nowhere near like back in the day. I suppose the city has not only grown big in population, but it has become more modern, more cold with the times, where nobody really believes in miracles anymore. Where many give lip service to the old creencias, but don't really believe in them no more. The new miracle maker is plain and simple "El Dolar'. If you got dollars, you can make your own miracles happen. In this day and age even Las Iglesias are devoid of large numbers attending Misa, and those that you find in church on Sunday are mostly of an older age and those from the poor populace. Juan Soldado is from another age, from a past age when people todavia se tocaba el corazon, but today, in this day and age, Juan Soldado could be executed, shot to pieces and his head cut off, and the most he would get is a small news article on the next days paper, and soon there after forgotten about.
My opinion on him is the reason why not so many believe in him and have a big following as he use to back then is the very church that many followers are devoted to are dismissing him. I think the church sees him as a rapist.
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand

"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-18-2008
godisred's Avatar
godisred godisred is offline
Maestro
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ya'agna
Posts: 3,286
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Never heard of him and my parents never promised him anything.
__________________
We don\'t want power over white institutions; we want white institutions to disappear. That\'s revolution. ~Russell Means

The function of the law is not to provide justice or to preserve freedom. The function of the law is to keep those who hold power, in power. ~Gerry Spence
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-18-2008
Lamberto Quintero's Avatar
Lamberto Quintero Lamberto Quintero is offline
Maestro
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 916/Emerald Triangle
Posts: 4,541
Send a message via AIM to Lamberto Quintero
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Viva Malverde!
__________________
"Caricias para las damas, balas pa' los enemigos"
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-16-2009
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,690
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default Re: Juan Soldado? Rapist or Saint?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamberto Quintero View Post
Viva Malverde!
He's the only unofficial saint that I know of that I don't like.
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand

"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:29 AM.


All the comments are property of their posters. Images, logo, content and design are © copyright by SoyChicano.com. All Rights Reserved.