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Professora 05-30-2006 08:01 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza

Originally Posted by gueritaconpica

Don't let these menso guidance counselors tell you that your only option is Community College. I am tired of only seeing 1-3% of Mexican students in our state universities. These schools need diversity!


I was at the top of my class in high school, and the counselor told me that I shouldn't attempt to go straight to a university because "you people don't do very well there."

My mom was on the phone with the administration that day, lol.

A teacher in my senior year of high school told me "I bet the only reason you're going to UCLA is to find a husband to support you." (Well, if that was the plan, it didn't work out, lol!)

A counselor in undergrad (and this was through a program for minority students, mind you!) told me that he didn't think I was "grad school material" so I had better go into sales or something that didn't require higher than a BA degree.

When I finish up this PhD, I have a good mind to look up all of these so-called educators and send each one of them an announcement. Either that, or maybe I'll just wait until my first book comes out and mail each one a copy, signed "SUCKER!!!!!!!!!" ;)

Not all educators are inept. I work with many colleagues who are positive forces in the lives of students. You just have to seek those people out.

Bottom line, Raza, take your life and your education into your own hands.

SuaveHighTimes 05-31-2006 05:52 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza
So what are these college entrance exams called, and what do they test you on?

SrChicano 05-31-2006 09:14 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza

I was at the top of my class in high school, and the counselor told me that I shouldn't attempt to go straight to a university because "you people don't do very well there."

My mom was on the phone with the administration that day, lol.
Praise your mother. Many times the only difference between gettting an education and getting nothing is the support you get from your family.

Purepecha 05-31-2006 09:38 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza

Originally Posted by gueritaconpica
Why don't we have a thread for college application help/FAFSA help? Maybe our people in universities can help other gente who are in the process of applying to college...

this aplication is why i stopped going to college because when i would turn it in i would tell they hey i sitll need help on filling this out
they would just send me back home to try again i figured osme of it out but i still had a big gap and everytime i went go back home and try again FAFSA is good but if you cant fill it out it does no good

Professora 05-31-2006 09:58 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza

Originally Posted by SuaveHighTimes
So what are these college entrance exams called, and what do they test you on?

Hi Suave:

For students attempting to go to a university out of high school, the exams in question would be the SAT I or ACT and SAT II.

For those who are planning to enter (or re-enter) community college, typically they need to take placement tests in order to determine a starting point for courses like math or English. Sometimes a community college will take someone's high school grades in lieu of placement exams if they didn't graduate too long ago, and the grades were high.

In order to transfer from a community college to a 4-year institution, there are no exams. However, once a person is at a 4-year school, and has plans to go on to graduate school, law school, medical school, etc. there can be a whole new set of exams and requirements that need to be completed.

SJ 05-31-2006 10:14 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza
There is one important factor that I didn't write about. And that is the responsibility as an individual.

There are 3 basic principles that people must have, in order to continue with their education.
1) Ganas. The most important thing is wanting to progress. We must have something inside of us that drives us forward. This is what will keep us focused, when time/life is rough. When we receive that D or F our first semester in college(after studying forever for that exam), there must be something inside of us that will keep us from getting discouraged and working two to three times as hard on the next exam. Echale Ganas! is what my mom always use to tell me. As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to go school, get my education and progress.

2) Support. either from family or friends. Or in many cases, teachers play an important role for support. It's also key to get involved and surround yourself around positive people. If you hang out with a bunch of people who take their education very seriously, some of it is bound to rub off on you. It's very easy to skip school, when most of your friends are.

3) knowledge. By knowledge I mean knowing what you want to do. Knowing what to do, to get there. And knowing if you are getting there. This is the missing link in my highschools. Many teachers/counselors are not giving chicanos the information they need. I walked into highschool not knowing anything about college prep classes, uc requirements or SAT exams.Since many chicanos don't know what it takes, they end up taking the wrong classes. if they don't have "ganas" then many of them won't take the time to conduct their own research. They settle for a community college. many of them will waste a lot of time there because 1) they don't know what to do 2) they don't know how to get out and move on to a UC or state college.

Our community college in hayward, which was on Hesperian blvd was dubbed "Hesperian High" for a reason. Not that I have anything against community colleges, I think they are a great alternative AS LONG AS the student doesn't trap themselves and keep themselves from moving on.

In college/university level, lack of knowledge can be the same problem. Not many of us know what we want out of life, we pick the wrong major, our life is hell and many of us drop out. We think of the entire college experience as unpleasant, simply because we picked the wrong major, the wrong classes. Higher learning is not fun, it becomes a chore. We are discouraged. And thanks to those around us, we convinced ourselves that we don't deserve any better.

Or in other cases, it becomes a financial burden. We can no longer afford it, so we drop out. We don't have that driving force that will keep us in college by taking a second job or better yet, conduct research to find grants and scholarships. There is so much money being handed out right now, it's not even funny. Many of it goes unclaimed simply because people don't know about it. again, many of us don't have ganas to go look for it.

I would like to get to each of your responses as soon as I get the chance...

FreedomNow 05-31-2006 10:17 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza
those tests for grad school r so disparaging. i am finally looking into grad programs.... i hate the thought of taking the GRE....

but i have to get ready to study so i can score high on that damn test.

Professora 05-31-2006 10:28 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza

I didn't bother taking Kaplan or any of those expensive courses to prep for my GRE. I did buy the Kaplan book and CD-rom at Borders, though. A friend of mine worked for Kaplan and told me that the books/CDs contain the same information they feature in the courses. Practicing with the CD really helped because it simulates the test-taking environment.

I also had my sister (who is good in math) help me practice for the math section. I thought math would be my downfall, but I surprised myself when my score came back! Depending on what you're applying for, the analytical writing can be the MOST important section. If you want some info. on any of this, let me know. I just went through the whole application process two years ago, so I know what you're up against. It's a real b-tch but worth it when you start getting those admissions letters!

FreedomNow 05-31-2006 10:36 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza
I will definitely take u up on that offer. I need all the help i can get. I was thinking bout taking a kaplan course b/c my friend taught one and might be doing it again this summer. I would be taking it for free... but i dont know if he s still in the country. in ne case i will be focusing my area of study in some type of social science. I want to be a history/ethnicstudies or something of that sort... i m sure analytical writing will be important for me.

i am not afraid of the math... i m pretty good at math...

i fogot who mentioned it earlier in the thread... i think it was profe.... she said that our people do want their kids to go to college. they know the intrinsic value of higher education... but again, most of these parents dont have the knowledge or resources to aid in the process of applying to school... thats y so many of our youth do not go... it is hard to know things u do not know (if that makes ne sense).

i do feel as individuals people should try to get informed... but it s hard to find things out by urself if u have no idea what to do...

citlalin 05-31-2006 01:59 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza
There's a lot of helpful info in this thread. Most all colleges/universities should have student advisors and student services for helping potential applicants getting started. If anyone has a specific question that is not answered by their advisors, I can try my best to help out, though each school has its own specific requirements; so, your best bet is to consult with advisors directly from your institution of choice.

As far as finanicial aid: the best person(s) to help with filing the application is whoever is responsible for your support. In my case, I solely supported myself, so applying for aid has never been a problem as I know exactly how much I earn and spend to support myself. However, if you are lucky enough to have family support, good then. But, you will need your parents or your family supporters to help file your fi-aid application. Again, you can also consult with advisors from your institution of choice. Also, some colleges/universities have offices of "Chicano Programs" or offices of "Native American Programs" and the people working there can help you as well.

Here are some numbers indicating the worth of earning certain degrees over the course of a lifetime (40 years). This should help motivate just about anyone!

Expected total earnings over a 40-year working life:

High school graduate: $1.2 million
Associate's degree: $1.6 million
Bachelor's degree: $2.1 million
Master's degree: $2.5 million
Doctoral degree $3.4 million
Professional degree: $4.4 million

Source: United States Census Bureau

As you can plainly see for yourself, ALL DEGREES PAY FOR THEMSELVES in the long run. The question that remains is how much are you willing to sacrifice?

Also, to all the potential college students: Your strongest abilities that will advance you the quickest are your communication skills. If you cannot communicate your interests and needs in applying for and earning a degree, then you are sadly in poor shape. If you don't have great communication skills---then now is the time to start developing them. Ask questions and speak up! Failure to do so, will get you nowhere.

FreedomNow 05-31-2006 02:03 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza
i really dont think its just cut and dry as asking for help and then u ll find it...

SrChicano 05-31-2006 02:40 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza
FreedonNow: If you truly want Freedom in your life, then stop whining and ask away.

i really dont think its just cut and dry as asking for help and then u ll find it...
The type of real life resources on this Forum are better than anything or anyone you as a Chicano/a can ever have available to ask.

FreedomNow 05-31-2006 02:45 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza
sorry, if i didnt make myself clear... i meant that a lot of the time it s not as simple as that....

i have no problem, now in my life asking for help. i understand the intrinsic value in humbling oneself and asking.

but it s not always as ez as just asking... i meant that sometimes, like it has been mentioned on this thread, counselors and folks who r there to "help" students to transition to college do little to encourage students. some counselors tell students not to reach as far as they can...

SrChicano 05-31-2006 02:52 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza

Expected total earnings over a 40-year working life:
High school graduate: $1.2 million
Associate's degree: $1.6 million
Bachelor's degree: $2.1 million
Master's degree: $2.5 million
Doctoral degree $3.4 million
Professional degree: $4.4 million
My six children:
Oldest daughter: Bachelor's degree earns $1.2 million a year.
Second oldest daughter:No degree earns $225 thousand a year, and has stock in her compnay in excess of $6 million.
Oldest son: Bachelor's degree earns in excess of $5 million a year, stock in excess of $500 million.
Second oldest son: Professional degree earns $450,000 a year.
Step son: Masters degree earns $120 thousand a year but works only three to four months a year.
Youngest daughter: Bachelor's degree (just graduated) earns $35,000 a year working at the university pharmacy preparing to enter her Masters program later this year.

My point is not to brag - just to point out that in real life the earning figures can be much greater than the average's stated.

SrChicano 05-31-2006 02:55 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza
FreedomNow: You're correct in that context. But there is no reason to make your requests on this as a public forum - email, or private message.

I can believe that anyone on this Forum wants anything else but to see more Chicano/a's secceed. No glory, just results!

FreedomNow 05-31-2006 02:59 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza
unfortunately, for a lot of us who want to help out the community, we wont be making the kind of money ur offspring will be making...

i think the avgs citlalin posted r more realistic... but i c ur point...

btw, i didnt have ne requests... just pointing out what some may and have experienced

KoolArrow 05-31-2006 03:52 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza
I never liked school when I was growing up. It wasnít the learning part that bothered me though. It was all the silly little rules and structure.
I actually enjoy learning a lot; but I donít like rigid rules.

I have two older sisters (10 and 12 yrs older) and they both went to a somewhat prestigious high school in So Cal. My parents used an uncleís address, so they could attend this school.
My parents were very strict with them, pushed them to excel in school and as a result, they both received very good educations.

By the time I was in high school, my parents didnít seem to be as concerned with my education. Things had kind of gone to shit and my parents were more concerned with paying the mortgage then they were with me getting in an AP class.

So when I entered high school, I wasnít prepared to apply myself. I was used to doing the bare minimum and passing.
All I wanted to do was bone girls, smoke weed and play basketball. School just interfered with that, so I hardly ever went.

Whatís strange is that even though I never went to high school and had virtually no chance of graduating; I always pictured myself going off to college someday. My oldest sister was attending UC Davis when I was 14 and I went to stay with her for a week. It really opened my eyes. I wanted to live the college lifestlyle!

My parents (my mom in particular) was very worried about me, when I was a teenager. I didnít want to go to any of those stupid ďalternativeĒ schools, because everyone there was a slacker and just fucked around. I figured, I didnít need to wake up at 6am, just so I could smoke weed and crack jokes in a classroom.

So at 17, I officially stopped going to school. Ironically, I had never done as much learning as I did when I dropped out.
I spent just about every weekday at the library and read a lot of books on a variety of subjects.

Then I turned 18 in Jan and by April I was at an adult school, signing up for the GED. I signed up for a GED prep course and easily passed a ďpractice testĒ. The director of the GED class suggested that I should take the official test that just happened to be taking place in a couple of days.
A few days later, I was a high school equivalency grad (although I didnít know I had passed for several weeks).

I dabbled in college for a couple of years, but had no direction and my interest always fizzled when the going got rough.
I worked for most of my early 20ís, but then came to the realization that if I didnít get an education, I would always be relegated to menial, low paying jobs without a lot of security.
My father died in 2000 and I started to reflect on the sacrifices he had made and how they took a toll on him.
I felt that I had an obligation to get an education, not only for myself but so all my fathers hard work would not be in vain.

I dont really see my education as a way to get rich. It's a way for me to do work that I find enjoyable and to not be as easily expendable to a company.

Rockero 05-31-2006 06:49 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza
There are a lot of good thoughts on this thread, but there are a few other things to consider. School is important since it determines how you look on paper (i.e. employability and wage bracket), and it is much easier to survive and help others around you if you are doing well economically. But schools and jobs are just a means to an end, that end being happiness. While nobody can be happy all the time, and economic success is no guarantee of happiness, the better education a person has --and when I say education I am not limiting myself to education in the institutional sense, but use the term broadly to refer to knowledge gained from all sources: books, experience, formal education, even TV, etc.-- the better their chances at interpreting and understanding the world, finding a meaningful place in it, and overcoming adversity. It is much easier to place misfortunes into context when you have a broad base of knowledge and experience to draw from.

Secondly, we have to consider the educational system that we are forced to go through. The public schools are mills. They don't value true learning and understanding. They just want your butt in the chair (for $ from the state) and for you to do well on the standardized tests (for the same reason). So if you are not the type of student that does well on tests, (and most of us aren't), then you get discouraged. And that's just from the way the system is set up!

As chicanos, we are constantly on the margins. We have to find a way to keep our heads above water without getting sucked under--succumbing to either failure in the form of jails or "success" in the form of assimilation. My advice is to go to school, do well in your classes, but never loses sight of the true meaning of education: your own mind.

Steve Biko said, "The mind is a weapon". I say sharpen it.

XxXDrEaMeRXxX 05-31-2006 06:57 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza

Originally Posted by SJ
Why are so many of us discouraged from learning? Why don't we enjoy gaining knowledge? Why aren't enough of us following through our education? The most important question, how do we change this. what can we do to improve this?

Is learning not enjoyable for the majority? what's the cause of this? Is society responsible for making it a chore? or is there something else I am missing?

The solution is reaching to those who don't want or think they can learn. Make them realize that learning can be enjoyable if you find the right subject. Easier said than done. how are we suppose to reach out to so many kids that don't think they can make it? Or worst, have no interest in making it.

I think the problems, starts at a very young age. School is introduced as a chore. It must be introduced as something beneficial. Struggling in school, due to difficult subject matter, discourages many. Education turns it into a chore. Education and gaining knowledge is no longer fun. Teachers are not well paid. Rooms are packed. It's hard for teachers to concentrate on the struggling students and encourage them. It's up to us to encourage them. But how?

Maybe parents are partly to blame. Perhaps they are responsible for introducing education as a chore. Homework is a good example, parents telling their kids to do their homework, interrupting their favorite games. Many parents don't spend the time explaining why. All the kid is aware of, is that their fun time was just ended because of their "dumb teacher and his/her stupid homework"

My mom took the time to explain it to me, maybe this is why my education is my main priority right now and why that's always been the case in my life. There was big encouragement in highschool. I belong to a program aimed for us, to guide us in the right educational paths. Without this, I wouldn't know the first thing about what the UC or state requirements were. The importance of the SAT's. the benefits to those 'difficult" ap courses, etc.

The people I hanged out with, were also a big part of that. I surrounded myself around people who cared about their education. It was difficult to slack off, when your friends took education seriously. We weren't nerds. We were just aware.

thoughts? I will write more about this later.

thats interestin n true.... my mom always tells us 2 get our education for our own good n because kids in other countries wished they were in our places ... instead they're workin or doin other stuff instead of gettin their education ...
she tells us 2 appreciate what we have because not alot of kids are us lucky as we are ... that motivates me 2 pay attention n do my best (even though sumtimes i dont feel like it) i still have that in mind ...

SrChicano 05-31-2006 08:03 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza
My youngest daughter dropped out of middle school, due to teachers and the administration being highly racist - she was the only minority in the school. She was told that she could never understand math because she was a "verbal learner" and could not read very well.

I home schooled her until she went to high school for one semester and dropped out again.

I enrolled her into Community College at the age of 16, and she took one class for a year. She was hired part-time by the same jr. college to assist a teacher that gave GED instruction and tests. She ended up graduating as president of the honor society and went to Oregon State University.

She took Chemistry as her major - which if you don't know is probably one of the most difficult subjects at any university, and includes serious math and reading skills.

She recently graduated with a 3.4 GPA and is preparing to take her Masters.

My oldest son went to a Calif. Community College to play football, and ended up graduating from Northridge University with a degree in business. He now owns a major company in San Diego county that employs about 300 people.

He wants to be on list in Forbes magazine as the first Latino billionaire in the USA, and he's about half there.

The moral of all this is: it can be done, by anyone. Don't allow teachers to dictate your life. It will be difficult because the dominate society does not want you to succeed. You must decide to control your life. Good Luck, and if anyone on SoyChicano can help let us know.

mariposa 05-31-2006 10:09 PM

Re: education y nuestra raza
question for PROFE and/or whoever is has a MASTERS or a PHD barely starting to think about this.....hmmmm what do you think is the best way to get a PhD since you already did it...should i go through a master's program or should i apply directly for the PhD???

Nelio 06-01-2006 07:40 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza
I guess i shall share my story. There are 3 of us kids in my family. WHen i was a kid we had got these encyclpedia books and they had a kids dictionary. My dad, pushed and made us write the words and defintions through the whole bool. %-10 times a word and up to 10 words a day. My brother and sister hated it, i hated it, but i guess it helpoed me. I always did good in school, but we all were instilled with fear from our dad to do bad. When i finally go to 9th grade, i started to slack off. I thought, fuck him, i do what i want. I went from being in the higher classes to just dropping down to the bare minimum classes to graduate. I did flunk some classes along the way, but that was because iu slept during class or all i did was draw. When i got serious with them the next time around i passed them with a breeze.

Now when i graduated, i though, okay i will take a yr off before i go to continue. During that yr i thought, fuck going to school right now, i dont really know what i want to do with my life, so whats the point in wasting money. I still feel that way. 6 yrs later, in 2003, i was watching tv one night and this live show that i usually watch was one. I thought, that job might be cool, not being an on air talent, but being behind the scenes. I looked into the community college, but they didnt have a good course yet, they were barely starting one. So i looked into the Technical College they had here. They had a good course on it. SO i went, i did all my classes, never failed one and made it through, now i have my Associates of Applied Science. That is all i need for whatever i want to do. After having the formal training, all you need is to work on a resume and have a good tape of the things you have done. As in shooting/ editing tape, or producing tape.

SO as i said before, a UNIVERSITY college is not needed, not needed at all. I could have gone to Baylor for the degree i went for, but i would have payed way more and taken way more courses then i actually needed to get into the business. For in this business i am in, having a fancy masters degree, doesnt really do much for you, if you do not have a good tape, or any experience. Of course i do not plan to stay in news, but my tape will be good enough to get me into anything else i want to do.

One does not need a degree to be educated. I always had a problem with that. I always though, WHY DO I NEED TO GO TO A SCHOOOL FOR A DUMBASS TO TELL ME WHAT I CAN READ IN A BOOK ANYWAYS. Because he has that degree he is not better then I in anyway.

I appluad those for going for there extra degrees, and while it might get you a job, it also might not. I say kids, adults, people do what you want to do for yourself and what makes YOU HAPPY. If your plans do not invilve going to college then they dont, simple as that. If your plans do not invilve being rich, then go for it, more power to you.

girly 06-01-2006 08:03 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza
I think parents are to blame for the most part if they never provide their kids with motivation or explain to their kids why it's important to go to school.

Many Mexican parents have a lot on their plate like work and taking care of a gazillion kids. Helping their kids with their schooling is at the bottom of their to do list. I hate to say it but ignorance plays a big part in this.

Nelio 06-01-2006 08:05 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza
Forcing a kid to learn is not going to help either. Even if you explain why you are forcing them to be better, the actual thing that you are forcing them will make them rebel. They should just encourage whatever thry decide to do and try to steer them in a direction that would be good.

girly 06-01-2006 08:12 AM

Re: education y nuestra raza
Another thing is that many kids have learning disabilities that are overlooked.

You can't force a kid to learn but parents have to be strict when it comes to their kids schooling. It'll show the kid the importance of it.

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