Soy Chicano Forums

Go Back   Soy Chicano Forums > Identity/Culture/Race/Religion > Religion

Religion Discuss your opinoins, faiths, beliefs, doubts, and/or philosophy.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-09-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California, OCCUPIED ANAHUAC
Posts: 1,081
Default Mexican Catholic Saints

For anyone that is Catholic, you should know you can pray to Mexican Catholic Saints.

I wonder why we don't hear about them more often?

http://santosmexico.tripod.com.mx
http://www.misaltos.com/cristeros/santos.html


This is in addition to La Virgen de Guadalupe
and Saint Juan Diego

-----------------------------

SANTOS DE
MÉXICO PARA EL MUNDO



SANTA MARIA DE JESÚS SACRAMENTADO VENEGAS DE LA TORRE
SAN CRISTÓBAL MAGALLANES JARA
SAN AGUSTÍN CALOCA CORTÉS
SAN JOSÉ MARÍA ROBLES HURTADO
SAN DAVID GALVÁN BERMÚDEZ
SAN JUSTINO ORONA MADRIGAL
SAN ATILANO CRUZ ALVARADO
SAN ROMÁN ADAME ROSALES
SAN JULIO ÁLVAREZ MENDOZA
SAN PEDRO ESQUEDA RAMÍREZ
SAN RODRIGO AGUILAR ALEMÁN
SAN TRANQUILINO UBIARCO ROBLES
SAN JENARO SÁNCHEZ DELGADILLO
SAN JOSÉ ISABEL FLORES VARELA
SAN SABÁS REYES SALAZAR
SAN TORIBIO ROMO GONZÁLEZ
SAN LUIS BATIZ SAINZ
SAN MANUEL MORALES
SAN SALVADOR LARA PUENTE
SAN DAVID ROLDÁN LARA
SAN MATEO CORREA MAGALLANES
SAN PEDRO DE JESÚS MALDONADO
SAN JESUS MÉNDEZ MONTOYA
SAN DAVID URIBE VELASCO
SAN MARGARITO FLORES GARCÍA
SAN MIGUEL DE LA MORA DE LA MORA





.
.
.
__________________
WATCH THE MEXICA MOVEMENT CONFRONT RACIST MINUTEMEN/SOS TO THEIR FACES
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/m...aster_race.wmv
http://www.mexica-movement.org
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-17-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California, OCCUPIED ANAHUAC
Posts: 1,081
Default Re: Mexican Catholic Saints

This is an interesting article by a Maya community which describes how the Maya converted Catholic saints into indigenous people.






http://www.waterlilyjaguar.com/direc.../vaxakmen.html



The Catholic saints are camouflage for the old "gods" (Manifestations)


Quote:
"With the Catholic saint's arrival starts another stage of religious conception amongst indigenous peoples; saints occupied the principal positions, but Indigenous gods still there, there are the vital support for indigenous life, the Catholic saints serve to camouflage them"

and on St. John...


Quote:
"If we realize that it is from here that the contradiction start, if the people from Cancuc say that Saint John when out from Palenque, the it is not Saint John from the Bible, the Catholic one, this Saint John its a different one, the figure is the same, but his essence, his soul and heart it is not kaxlan, (white) its not Christian, his origin is Indigenous, his steps, his path and Ch'ulel, it is Indigenous.

The saints are described as being Indigenous souls


Quote:
It is this way that the Mezoamerican cosmovision has not been lose, among present Indigenous peoples they still maintain allot from the past. there is a distance of what Catholic saints where in the past, today they are more Indian than Kaxlanes, because Saint John from Chamula has his house in Tzonte' Vitz mountain, (Musk mountain), there he takes care of his children, he lives like a true Chamula.

Each saint from every village has his cave or mountain where he appeared or presently lives.


They even dress many of the Saints as "Indians."

Quote:
"Even though saints are kaxlanes {White people}, they will be dressed as indians becuase their ch'ulel already is in many villages."


The Maya even describe Christ as being the Sun, "San Salvador"
__________________
WATCH THE MEXICA MOVEMENT CONFRONT RACIST MINUTEMEN/SOS TO THEIR FACES
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/m...aster_race.wmv
http://www.mexica-movement.org
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-17-2005
miguelito21's Avatar
miguelito21 miguelito21 is offline
Maestro
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Posts: 3,417
Default

interesting
__________________
"Advertising has us working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need." - Tyler Durden

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell (copied from the most honorable KA)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-17-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California, OCCUPIED ANAHUAC
Posts: 1,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelito21
interesting
A very good book on this interesting phenonmena is
"Maya Cosmos: Three Thousand Years Along The Shaman's Path"


[img]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0688140696.01._PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-
[/img]


It sounds like a New Age book, but it is not.

It is actually VERY good at explaining the original Maya religion
and showing how modern Maya continue to practice it even though it looks like they are practing the Catholic religion.


It talks about the "Saints" as well as the Christian cross, which the Maya converted into their old Wakah Chan, The World Tree which symbolized the Four Directions, the three layers of the universe, and the Milky Way constellation.

It mentions corn used on Catholic altars, Mayan statues being buried underneath churches, and literally, "idols behind altars."
__________________
WATCH THE MEXICA MOVEMENT CONFRONT RACIST MINUTEMEN/SOS TO THEIR FACES
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/m...aster_race.wmv
http://www.mexica-movement.org
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-17-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California, OCCUPIED ANAHUAC
Posts: 1,081
Default

http://www.mesoweb.com/features/fabric/fabric53.html



Quote:
The maize god and Jesus Christ represent analogous figures who emerge from the underworld to bring life and charge the cosmos with renewed sacred power. The renewal of the earth is reenacted with the annual decoration of the Monumento with fruit, flowers, and cedar boughs.
__________________
WATCH THE MEXICA MOVEMENT CONFRONT RACIST MINUTEMEN/SOS TO THEIR FACES
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/m...aster_race.wmv
http://www.mexica-movement.org
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-17-2005
miguelito21's Avatar
miguelito21 miguelito21 is offline
Maestro
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Posts: 3,417
Default

thanks for the link.

i bookmarked it and i'll look it up later.

thanks
__________________
"Advertising has us working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need." - Tyler Durden

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell (copied from the most honorable KA)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-15-2005
chalebrown chalebrown is offline
Travieso
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: san anto
Posts: 426
Default

i don't understand; i am puzzled. what does one get when one prays to these saints? who are they? please enlightened me.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-15-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California, OCCUPIED ANAHUAC
Posts: 1,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalebrown
i don't understand; i am puzzled. what does one get when one prays to these saints? who are they? please enlightened me.
I used to be a serious Catholic, so I'll answer:


According to the Catholic Church, Saints are human souls who you pray "with", not to.

That's their official stance.

So you pray "with" the Saints for "intercession" with God The Father
kind of like having an agent who tries to get you a good contract in the NBA.

The Saints are human souls who are "on the inside" so to speak,
kind of like having a friend in Human Resources who can help you get a job with a company.


All over the world, especially in Celtic Europe, Christian saints just absorbed and replaced the old gods of wind, harvest, Sun, birth, good fortune, etc.



Any good informed Catholic will have a quick response to the charge:

"Why do you Catholics pray to so many Saints?"

"Oh, we don't pray to them. We only pray to God.
We pray WITH the Saints just like you pray with your community or bible study group!"


I used to say that one to non-Catholic Christians,
and man it would to get their blood boiling!
__________________
WATCH THE MEXICA MOVEMENT CONFRONT RACIST MINUTEMEN/SOS TO THEIR FACES
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/m...aster_race.wmv
http://www.mexica-movement.org
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-15-2005
chalebrown chalebrown is offline
Travieso
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: san anto
Posts: 426
Default

thanks for your reply but i am still puzzled.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-15-2005
deletedAccount
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mexica Spirit: Tonanztin converted into Guadalupe

It happened after the whole story of Juan Diego seeing Tonantzin on Tepeyac hill. It was originally stated by Juan Diego that she was a morena. Then the Catholic priests changed the story completely around and said she was La Virgen, etc, etc. Now we have paintings of a guerrita
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-15-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California, OCCUPIED ANAHUAC
Posts: 1,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalebrown
thanks for your reply but i am still puzzled.

if I was still Christian, my response to you would have been


"That's okay...I'l pray for you. Lord, please let this poor, lost sheep who wallows in ignorance and sin (unlike me ) find the TRUE way."

(said in a VERY condescending way)


But since I am no longer, my response is "that's okay."
__________________
WATCH THE MEXICA MOVEMENT CONFRONT RACIST MINUTEMEN/SOS TO THEIR FACES
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/m...aster_race.wmv
http://www.mexica-movement.org
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-15-2005
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,134
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default

Damn you beat me to this. LOL. It's all good.
Anyway, many of the saints are from during the religious conquest who origins are from Mexico before the conquest as gods or people who died during the Cristero war (I have two family history stories that are about both of them. If anybody is interested, I'll probably tell both the stories.).
Not sure how many of you guys go to Mexico for any of the saints holidays, but many of them have native mexican origins.
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand
"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-15-2005
chalebrown chalebrown is offline
Travieso
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: san anto
Posts: 426
Default

who made these people saints? i don't understand this sainthood that you all speak of, sorry.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-15-2005
deletedAccount
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalebrown
who made these people saints? i don't understand this sainthood that you all speak of, sorry.
The Pope is the only one who makes certain people saints, there's a process. Juan Diego is the most recent saint of Mexico I believe? Im not sure.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-15-2005
zapatasbloodjv's Avatar
zapatasbloodjv zapatasbloodjv is offline
Travieso
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: back in HELL.A
Posts: 374
Default

its real complicated to explain how to become a saint
but Rome and the Catholic big wigs decide based on feats and so forth
i had a spanish history class and the prof talked about how the span fought tooth and nail to get span ppl classified as saints.

they were basically ppl who had a following due to having or claiming a special bond to god or having powers usu. healing.

i had to read a book on st.teresa de avila believe me a bore.
she sounded crazy, but her visions got her sainthood.
__________________
They came with a Bible and their religion— stole our land, crushed our spirit... and now tell us we should be thankful to the ‘Lord’ for being saved.
Chief Pontiac

A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Frederick Nietzsche

There is something feeble and contemptible about a man who cannot face life without the help of comfortable myths.
Bertrand Russell

California Alumni - class of 2006. Go Bears!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-15-2005
chalebrown chalebrown is offline
Travieso
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: san anto
Posts: 426
Default

so to pray with these saints let's say that someone i know has an illness which saint would be the best suited for such a prayer?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-16-2005
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,134
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default

I remember my mom saying that our indigena great grandparents found this area (never says if it's a mine or what, but they kept it a secret so people wouldn't find it. They believed greed would consume people if they found out where and what.) and found gold. Anyway, majority of the gold they had, they would pay for all their saints festivals/events.
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand
"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-16-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California, OCCUPIED ANAHUAC
Posts: 1,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalebrown
who made these people saints? i don't understand this sainthood that you all speak of, sorry.
The Pope is the only one who makes certain people saints, there's a process. Juan Diego is the most recent saint of Mexico I believe? Im not sure.
It's a pretty racist process.


Juan Diego was only recently made a saint after almost 500 years.


But several White people were made saints in a much shorter time than that (often less than 100 years).


There are criteria the Church uses, and ultimately, it comes down to the votes of a few White men.
__________________
WATCH THE MEXICA MOVEMENT CONFRONT RACIST MINUTEMEN/SOS TO THEIR FACES
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/m...aster_race.wmv
http://www.mexica-movement.org
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-16-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California, OCCUPIED ANAHUAC
Posts: 1,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalebrown
so to pray with these saints let's say that someone i know has an illness which saint would be the best suited for such a prayer?
You can go online and find that out.

http://www.catholic.org/saints/



P.S. Even though the official Catholic theology says people pray with Saints,
let's face it, people pray TO Saints all the time.
__________________
WATCH THE MEXICA MOVEMENT CONFRONT RACIST MINUTEMEN/SOS TO THEIR FACES
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/m...aster_race.wmv
http://www.mexica-movement.org
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-16-2005
chalebrown chalebrown is offline
Travieso
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: san anto
Posts: 426
Default

Proposed Patron Saint of Internet Users


A Prayer before Logging onto the Internet and the Catholic Online Forum
Almighty and eternal God,
who created us in Thy image and bade us to seek after all that is good,
true and beautiful,
especially in the divine person of Thy only-begotten Son,
our Lord Jesus Christ,
grant we beseech Thee that,
through the intercession of Saint Isidore,
bishop and doctor,
during our journeys through the internet we will direct our hands and eyes only to that which is pleasing to Thee
and treat with charity and patience all those souls whom we encounter.
Through Christ our Lord.
Amen



wow this is what i found in that catholic site you gave anahuac
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-16-2005
chalebrown chalebrown is offline
Travieso
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: san anto
Posts: 426
Default

Romans 8:34 - Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us


WOW! this is way better than that saint isidore so i'd rather bank my prayers in JESUS' name than some saint derived from man who holds no power like the SON of GOD, Amen.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-16-2005
LaBlueEyes's Avatar
LaBlueEyes LaBlueEyes is offline
Chicle
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 111
Default

Hey Anahuac no sabes si tienes un sitio en espanol asi?
Something that has los santo and what they are the saints of?
Does any one know?
__________________
No Soy Perfecta Pero Mis Defectos Son Encantadores...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-16-2005
Anahuac_History Anahuac_History is offline
Gunner
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California, OCCUPIED ANAHUAC
Posts: 1,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalebrown
Romans 8:34 - Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us


WOW! this is way better than that saint isidore so i'd rather bank my prayers in JESUS' name than some saint derived from man who holds no power like the SON of GOD, Amen.
Great for you.

But why do you play games. Just come out and say what you think in the first post.


I hate to tell you this, but Jesus said in The Lord's Prayer to pray directly to God the Father.

No mention in that about praying to Jesus.

But if you want to worship a Jewish Rabbi, that's totally your choice.
__________________
WATCH THE MEXICA MOVEMENT CONFRONT RACIST MINUTEMEN/SOS TO THEIR FACES
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/m...aster_race.wmv
http://www.mexica-movement.org
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-16-2005
chalebrown chalebrown is offline
Travieso
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: san anto
Posts: 426
Default

anahuac, you pray to the father and ask in JESUS' name he says but i will not qoute everything HE said cause you know of God everyone knows but you shut your eyes to the truth.

romans 1:18-25

18 For there is revealed wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety, and unrighteousness of men holding the truth in unrighteousness. 19 Because what is known of God is manifest among them, for God has manifested [it] to them, 20 -- for from [the] world's creation the invisible things of him are perceived, being apprehended by the mind through the things that are made, both his eternal power and divinity, -- so as to render them inexcusable. 21 Because, knowing God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but fell into folly in their thoughts, and their heart without understanding was darkened: 22 professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into [the] likeness of an image of corruptible man and of birds and quadrupeds and reptiles. 24 Wherefore God gave them up [also] in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies between themselves: 25 who changed the truth of God into falsehood, and honoured and served the creature more than him who had created [it], who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-18-2005
tecpaocelotl's Avatar
tecpaocelotl tecpaocelotl is offline
The one and only
Presidente
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cali
Posts: 27,134
Send a message via AIM to tecpaocelotl Send a message via MSN to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Yahoo to tecpaocelotl Send a message via Skype™ to tecpaocelotl
Default

Then, on my dad's side, my great grandfather and grandpa helped a priest go to Tepatitlan during the Cristero war. Depending which book you get, gives you a different reason why the cristero war happened. People who are Catholic will write that Marxist wanted to kill all Catholic priest/nuns. People who are not Christian will write about how the Catholics killed people and this and that. But there is a book that tells you something that these books leave behind (forgot the title. When I find it, I will post about it. It talks in less than a paragraph about my great grandfather and grandpa.) and it shows like it's not a win or a lose, or that one was right or wrong, but that both were wrong. Practically what happens is after the Mexican Revolution, a follower of villa uses the churches as army stations. I think he used the one in Guadalajara that broke the final straw for the church. The priest said that they were insulting god and practically what happens is a protest of not doing anything and those of Catholic belief do the same. Books have different reasons why the protest worked, but according to my grandpa (RIP), the church told them that if they didn't do what the church told them, that they would be excommunicated. That's why my grandpa didn't go to school. The Mexican government saw that people were controlled by the church and in order for them to stop obeying the church they would have to kill the priest and nuns and those who helped them...
__________________
"Don't Demonstrate, Infiltrate! From within you can help those without." -Jorge Le Rand
"Tehan tohtocazqueh to tamatcayotl can cachi chicahuac." - David Vazquez
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Catholic Religion Xican01 Religion 122 02-01-2010 01:30 AM
Mexican Catholic Hymns with Nahuatl Origin tecpaocelotl Religion 3 09-29-2006 03:18 PM
What about those Saints? Nelio Sports Board 5 09-08-2005 08:27 AM
Catholic or Christian? TMex Religion 2 03-10-2005 12:36 AM
Bush is NOT catholic Volkito Religion 1 12-29-2004 06:24 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:37 AM.


All the comments are property of their posters. Images, logo, content and design are © copyright by SoyChicano.com. All Rights Reserved.