So I just started reading the bible

[Jedi Master]

Originally Posted by Soldier

that's not very christian like mr christian
any who shouldnt you be out in Haiti "helping" the kids like your counterparts?

what are you doing here? Go shoot yourself already.

[Soldier]

Originally Posted by Jedi Master

what are you doing here? Go shoot yourself already.

No but how about this: strap a bomb and blow yourself up in front of your church

[Jedi Master]

Originally Posted by Soldier

No but how about this: strap a bomb and blow yourself up in front of your church

lame comeback.

[Jedi Master]

Originally Posted by Observer

To all of you who do believe in Jesus, God, and the Bible, I wonder if you are all a MAN of your word and practice what you preach. Will you kill adulterers, disobedient children and those who work on the Sabbath?

You are all so confident and tough , lets see you be real men and practice what you preach on here. I would love to see you tell your own children/parents/family these things, i would pay anything to see everyone of you tell your kids that its not only moral but God's will that you kill adulterers, disobedient children and those people who work on the Sabbath.

Short sighted people are fun to mess with, especially when they make it easy to use their own self-righteousness on them.

he thinks he has Christianity all figured out!

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

[JagPaw99]

Originally Posted by Jedi Master

"Despite the Hellenization of the general region and the probability that Greek was known to many people it seems likely that Nazareth remained a conservative Jewish village. After the Jewish war with the Romans from AD 66-70 it was necessary to re-settle Jewish priests and their families. Such groups would only settle in unmixed towns, that is towns without Gentile inhabitants. According to an inscription discovered in 1962 in Caesarea Maritima the priests of the order of Elkalir made their home in Nazareth. This, by the way, is the sole known reference to Nazareth in antiquity, apart from written Christian sources... (next paragraph) Some scholars had even believed that Nazareth was a fictitious invention of the early Christians; the inscription from Caesarea Maritima proves otherwise." Paul Barnett[BSNT], Behind the Scenes of the New Testament, IVP:1990, p.42:

bump

WTF is this shit? your argument was that Nazareth existed when the allegedly Jesus Christ was born and walking around.This inscription doesn't prove anything other than the Elkalir family migrating to that location years after his death,dummy.

No Nazareth no Jesus...


you lose,you always lose.

[Jedi Master]

Dumb ass, they moved to Nazareth. It does not say they created Nazareth. They moved there. You are talking out of your ass.

[JagPaw99]

Originally Posted by Jedi Master

Dumb ass, they moved to Nazareth. It does not say they created Nazareth. They moved there. You are talking out of your ass.

I never said they created it.I said the inscription doesn't prove anything to support your theory,that's all.

so i'm assuming that's it,that's all you had?I mean,you bumped that post as if you had something.

[Jedi Master]

Bath houses, inscriptions, old pottery, Biblical mention and Yet Nazareth did not exist. You're deluded.

[JagPaw99]

Originally Posted by Jedi Master

Bath houses, inscriptions, old pottery, Biblical mention and Yet Nazareth did not exist. You're deluded.

Yeah,they proved that people lived in that area but not that it was named Nazareth till after his death,dipshit.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by Jedi Master

he thinks he has Christianity all figured out! ]

Never said I have Christianity all figured out; it's just the opposite, actually. I haven't read anything in the New Testament that says that the Laws of Moses or their punishments, as outlined the Old Testament, were repealed.

Where does Jesus say death it is no longer the punishment for those that "blasphemeth the name of the Lord," or for someone who "curseth his father or his mother," or for a man and woman who "committeth adultery"?

[Jedi Master]

Originally Posted by Observer

Never said I have Christianity all figured out; it's just the opposite, actually. I haven't read anything in the New Testament that says that the Laws of Moses or their punishments, as outlined the Old Testament, were repealed.

Where does Jesus say death it is no longer the punishment for those that "blasphemeth the name of the Lord," or for someone who "curseth his father or his mother," or for a man and woman who "committeth adultery"?

Have you even read the NT? HOw do you interpret Jesus' actions about stoning the adulteress according to the Law of Moses?

Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
Galations 3:23

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
Col 2:13

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
Eph 2:14

[Observer]

Originally Posted by Observer

Where does Jesus say death it is no longer the punishment for those that "blasphemeth the name of the Lord," or for someone who "curseth his father or his mother," or for a man and woman who "committeth adultery"?

Originally Posted by Jedi Master

HOw do you interpret Jesus' actions about stoning the adulteress according to the Law of Moses?

So, I guess no where in the New Testament does God/Jesus explicitly repeal the punishments outlined in the Old Testament. Dont you find that at all strange? I mean, the Old Testament, which you believe to be the inspired word of God, is very clear and unequivocal as to Ten Commandments and the punishment for violating some of those Commandments. Why would the same god be so unclear in the New Testament? It seems odd, not to mention unlikely, to me that an omniscient being would fail to be at least as clear in the New Testament as he was in the Old Testament. That is to ask, why not at least match the level clarity in of the Old Testament and state in the New Testament that his human subjects were/are no longer required to put to death adulteresses, blasphemers, disobedient children? Because the Lord works in mysterious, inefficient, and amazingly cruel ways?

Originally Posted by Jedi Master

Have you even read the NT?

Some parts, yes. Like this part in Matthew:

Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.
-Matthew 5:17

[Jedi Master]

So, I guess no where in the New Testament does God/Jesus explicitly repeal the punishments outlined in the Old Testament. Dont you find that at all strange? I mean, the Old Testament, which you believe to be the inspired word of God, is very clear and unequivocal as to Ten Commandments and the punishment for violating some of those Commandments. Why would the same god be so unclear in the New Testament? It seems odd, not to mention unlikely, to me that an omniscient being would fail to be at least as clear in the New Testament as he was in the Old Testament. That is to ask, why not at least match the level clarity in of the Old Testament and state in the New Testament that his human subjects were/are no longer required to put to death adulteresses, blasphemers, disobedient children? Because the Lord works in mysterious, inefficient, and amazingly cruel ways?

You did not answer my question. How do you interpret Jesus' actions about stoning the adulteress?

I provided more than enough passages stating that we are no longer under the Law. Why don't you accept those passages?

How can you cite the passage where Jesus states He came to fulfill THE LAW and not abolish it yet completely ignore the passages I cited where it states that we are no longer under the Law?

Do the stoning's fall under the Law? Yes or no?

When Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and not abolish it that is exactly what He did. The Law required a sacrifice for sins. He came to fulfill that as the PERFECT sacrifice. that is what He meant when he said "It is finished."

When Jesus had taken the wine, he said, "It is finished." And bowing his head, he handed over the spirit..
John 19:30

which then goes with this passage in Ephesians.

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
Ephesians 2:14-15

[Observer]

You did not answer my question. How do you interpret Jesus' actions about stoning the adulteress?

I know. Since you habitually fail to answer
questions, I'll pich and choose which of your questions are worthy of answers.


I provided more than enough passages stating that we are no longer under the Law. Why don't you accept those passages?

I dont agree you provided "more than enough passages stating that we are no longer under the Law"; and I think Matthew 5:17 highlights the contradictive nature of the Bible; even though god is supposed to be omniscient, it cant seem to agree with itself or be very clear.

How can you cite the passage where Jesus states He came to fulfill THE LAW and not abolish it yet completely ignore the passages I cited where it states that we are no longer under the Law?

Much like you ignored Mathew 5:17, I guess.

When Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and not abolish it that is exactly what He did. The Law required a sacrifice for sins. He came to fulfill that as the PERFECT sacrifice. that is what He meant when he said "It is finished."

That makes no sense to me.

[Jedi Master]

I dont agree you provided "more than enough passages stating that we are no longer under the Law"; and I think Matthew 5:17 highlights the contradictive nature of the Bible; even though god is supposed to be omniscient, it cant seem to agree with itself or be very clear.

If it is a contradiction, then what did Jesus mean when He said, "Fulfill" the Law? Again, why did He not condone the stoning of the adulteress woman?

Much like you ignored Mathew 5:17, I guess.

Ignore? I wrote this:
When Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and not abolish it that is exactly what He did. The Law required a sacrifice for sins. He came to fulfill that as the PERFECT sacrifice. that is what He meant when he said "It is finished."

That makes no sense to me.

Jesus fulfilled the Law by dying as the perfect sacrifice. Makes perfect sense to me.
That is what Jesus meant when He said, "It is finished" on the cross. He finished fulfilling the Law.

[Gh0sT213]

Tanto como los que creen en La Biblia como los que no creen, porque se comportan de la manera en que lo hacen?

Por que se insultan los unos a los otros?

El usar malas palabras solo demuestra su incapacidad de defender su punto de vista.

[Observer]

If it is a contradiction, then what did Jesus mean when He said, "Fulfill" the Law? Again, why did He not condone the stoning of the adulteress woman?

That it is even a question of interpretation should give one pause to think: why were the laws and punishments so clear in the Old Testament and yet their supposed repeal so vague in the New Testament? Why didn't Jesus just say something like: "You are no longer required to kill homosexuals, disobedient children, and adulterers?" Why would a supposed all knowing being change his style and leave the meanings of his latest words open to interpretation? Because he works in mysterious and progressively inefficient ways? That seems incredibly senseless, and unbecoming of omniscient deity.

Now, I don't believe that the scenario of Jesus admonishing those who wanted stone the adulteress actually occurred; rather, I think it more probable that it's a fictionally story made up by men--men who came to realize just how barbarous the directives of the Old Testament were--in order to soften the cruelty ordered by the supposed god and outlined in the Old Testament.

Jesus fulfilled the Law by dying as the perfect sacrifice. Makes perfect sense to me.

I'm sure it does. However, objectively, it seems to be opened to differing interpretations.

You write, that Christians "are no longer under the [Mosaic] Law[s]." But Matthew 5:17 clearly states that your god did not intend to "abolish" the Mosaic Law--that is clear; it is clearly written. What does "abolish" mean? An objective definition is: "to do away with; put an end to; annul; make void." So, we have the Bible saying: Jesus did not come to do away with, put an end to, annul, or make void Mosaic Law and you saying otherwise. If one agrees with the definition of "abolish," then (s)he'd have to agree that there is indeed a contradiction there. For if the Mosaic Laws are not to done away with, ended, or annulled, that is to say, if they are not abolished, then they are still valid, confirmed, and intact. Now, you may have a different definition of what "abolish" means, and if so, I'd like to read it. But if not, you should be able to see the contradiction.

[HyperKinetic]

Oh Obs, you are making a great mistake in trying to reason with a religious person, thus forgetting that:

[Jedi Master]

Originally Posted by Observer

If it is a contradiction, then what did Jesus mean when He said, "Fulfill" the Law? Again, why did He not condone the stoning of the adulteress woman?

That it is even a question of interpretation should give one pause to think: why were the laws and punishments so clear in the Old Testament and yet their supposed repeal so vague in the New Testament? Why didn't Jesus just say something like: "You are no longer required to kill homosexuals, disobedient children, and adulterers?" Why would a supposed all knowing being change his style and leave the meanings of his latest words open to interpretation? Because he works in mysterious and progressively inefficient ways? That seems incredibly senseless, and unbecoming of omniscient deity.

Now, I don't believe that the scenario of Jesus admonishing those who wanted stone the adulteress actually occurred; rather, I think it more probable that it's a fictionally story made up by men--men who came to realize just how barbarous the directives of the Old Testament were--in order to soften the cruelty ordered by the supposed god and outlined in the Old Testament.

Jesus fulfilled the Law by dying as the perfect sacrifice. Makes perfect sense to me.

I'm sure it does. However, objectively, it seems to be opened to differing interpretations.

You write, that Christians "are no longer under the [Mosaic] Law[s]." But Matthew 5:17 clearly states that your god did not intend to "abolish" the Mosaic Law--that is clear; it is clearly written. What does "abolish" mean? An objective definition is: "to do away with; put an end to; annul; make void." So, we have the Bible saying: Jesus did not come to do away with, put an end to, annul, or make void Mosaic Law and you saying otherwise. If one agrees with the definition of "abolish," then (s)he'd have to agree that there is indeed a contradiction there. For if the Mosaic Laws are not to done away with, ended, or annulled, that is to say, if they are not abolished, then they are still valid, confirmed, and intact. Now, you may have a different definition of what "abolish" means, and if so, I'd like to read it. But if not, you should be able to see the contradiction.

I will ask again, what did He mean by fulfilling? What was He fulfilling?

So whatever is in Scripture that clearly contradicts your points did not really happen and it's falsified information? Rather convenient on your part, don't you think?

Jesus said He was to fulfill the Law and not abolish it. As I said, He did fulfill it when He died on the cross. Which is why He said "it is finished". Why else did he say that? Or is that another passage that you believe was added by men?

I will ask you again, why are you ok with using Matt 5:15 to include stoning yet are so adamant about having each law/regulation listed where it clearly states that the law had been cancelled by His death?

[Observer]

Originally Posted by HyperKinetic

Oh Obs, you are making a great mistake in trying to reason with a religious person

I know, I know

[Observer]

Originally Posted by HyperKinetic

[sweetnspicy79]

Zechariah 7:10
Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. In your hearts do not think evil of each other.'


Ezekiel 22:29
The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the alien, denying them justice.


Deuteronomy 24:14
Do not take advan...tage of a hired man who is poor and needy, whether he is a brother Israelite or an alien living in one of your towns.


Deuteronomy 24:17
Do not deprive the alien or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge.


Malachi 3:5
"So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me," says the LORD Almighty.


Deuteronomy 27:19
"Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien, the fatherless or the widow."
Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"


Deuteronomy 10:18
He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing.


Leviticus 19:34
The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.


Psalm 146:9
The LORD watches over the alien and sustains the fatherless and the widow,
but he frustrates the ways of the wicked.


Deuteronomy 10:19
And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l92dNvcAvJI

[miguelito21]

I started reading it myself. I had read bits and pieces before, but now I'm trying to read the whole thing.

I'm pretty slow because I fall asleep pretty fast when I read it (scenario is not very intense, hard to remain focused).

I'm still at the very beginning, Genesis (I'm currently at Genesis:23). I have two questions for those who read it. I tried to find the answer by reading more carefully but it didn't work.


(1) After Adam and Eve get kicked out of Heaven, they have three sons: Cain, Abel and Seth. Cain kills Abel, which leaves him and Seth.

Cain gets a wife and so does Seth (couldn't find their name).

Where do they come from??

Adam and Eve are the first humans, and they got 3 sons. Where do these wives come from? Couldn't find any clue yet.


(2) During the Deluge, appart from the animals, Noah takes with him his wife, his sons (Sem, Chem and Japhet) and their wives.

When they get off, after two months and 27 days, it clearly says every living thing has been wiped off.

Then the book goes on to talk about each son's descendants.

Same problem as earlier with Cain and Seth:

Sem, Chem and Japhet can logically have kids because their wives were on board.

But then, where do these kids find their partners?? There was supposedly nothing left after the Deluge so ... wtf


If anyone knows the logical answer, please share.

[sweetnspicy79]

lol^^ thats cute

[miguelito21]

lol don't make fun of me.